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Will Scotland Leave the UK?
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Old 17-08-2020, 15:10   #3136
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by Chris View Post
“The referee’s a Tory” could become a popular chant from the terraces once the crowds are allowed back in
When l was younger and my Dad and bigger brother took me to the football l heard far worse then that.
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Old 17-08-2020, 16:07   #3137
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by Chris View Post
“The referee’s a Tory” could become a popular chant from the terraces once the crowds are allowed back in
I think you may have missed out an adjective between "a" and "Tory"...
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Old 17-08-2020, 17:03   #3138
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Old 17-08-2020, 20:03   #3139
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
It’s still a government in Scotland acting in the interests of Scotland. If a party won a Scottish election that I didn’t vote for then that would be the results.
I will bite only on this little corner of the absurd views you are spinning on this thread, jfman.

The SNP is not acting in the interests of the Scottish people. Whatever anyone's views on Scottish independence, one thing is undeniable (although I expect that you will have a damned good try, against all logic).

England has the biggest population of the union. It makes the most money by far, and it subsidises Scotland very generously by various means, including the Barnett formula. You only have to look at the absence of that formula to realise how negatively independence would impact on the Scottish people. Add to that the various benefits Scotland derives from being part of the UK and pile on the costs of self government, and factor in the rapidly reducing benefits of North Sea oil, not forgetting the disincentives to entrepreneurism under the misguided leftist policies of the SNP, and you have a recipe for disaster. The fact tbat only one page of the SNP's 400-odd page document making the case for independence covered the financial implications of separation shows very clearly that they do not actually have a clue on how to manage an economy.

Separation from the UK will be nothing short of a disaster for Scotland, and for the sake of its people I hope that the economic and currency consequences of leaving can be properly explained to them by someone they will listen to.

Nobody wants to vote to be poorer, as they say in remainer circles. As an economist, you should understand this.
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Old 17-08-2020, 20:10   #3140
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
I will bite only on this little corner of the absurd views you are spinning on this thread, jfman.

The SNP is not acting in the interests of the Scottish people. Whatever anyone's views on Scottish independence, one thing is undeniable (although I expect that you will have a damned good try, against all logic).

England has the biggest population of the union. It makes the most money by far, and it subsidises Scotland very generously by various means, including the Barnett formula. You only have to look at the absence of that formula to realise how negatively independence would impact on the Scottish people. Add to that the various benefits Scotland derives from being part of the UK and pile on the costs of self government, and factor in the rapidly reducing benefits of North Sea oil, not forgetting the disincentives to entrepreneurism under the misguided leftist policies of the SNP, and you have a recipe for disaster. The fact tbat only one page of the SNP's 400-odd page document making the case for independence covered the financial implications of separation shows very clearly that they do not actually have a clue on how to manage an economy.

Separation from the UK will be nothing short of a disaster for Scotland, and for the sake of its people I hope that the economic and currency consequences of leaving can be properly explained to them by someone they will listen to.

Nobody wants to vote to be poorer
, as they say in remainer circles. As an economist, you should understand this.
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Old 17-08-2020, 22:02   #3141
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

The exams situation can't have done the SNP any harm - they agreed to use teacher's predicted results some four days ago. The SNP can argue that Scottish children and their parents did not have to endure the stress and mess from inferior English decision-making.

---------- Post added at 22:02 ---------- Previous post was at 21:56 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Separation from the UK will be nothing short of a disaster for Scotland, and for the sake of its people I hope that the economic and currency consequences of leaving can be properly explained to them by someone they will listen to.
More Project Fear, Old Boy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post

Nobody wants to vote to be poorer, as they say in remainer circles. As an economist, you should understand this.
You voted to be poorer in 2016 (per the Government's own economists) so why can't the Scots do the same?
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Old 17-08-2020, 22:39   #3142
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
<SNIP>
[/COLOR]
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
Separation from the UK will be nothing short of a disaster for Scotland, and for the sake of its people I hope that the economic and currency consequences of leaving can be properly explained to them by someone they will listen to.

More Project Fear, Old Boy.

You voted to be poorer in 2016 (per the Government's own economists) so why can't the Scots do the same?
As if you didn't know, the situation is quite different as between the EU and Scotland.

In the EU case, the UK is a net contributor to the EU budget, funded from our ability to create wealth.

In the Scotland case, the UK government is a net contributor to Scotland, which has no ability to create comparable wealth to compensate.

'Project Fear', as you put it, is a valid warning to Scottish nats.
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Old 17-08-2020, 22:55   #3143
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
As if you didn't know, the situation is quite different as between the EU and Scotland.

In the EU case, the UK is a net contributor to the EU budget, funded from our ability to create wealth.

In the Scotland case, the UK government is a net contributor to Scotland, which has no ability to create comparable wealth to compensate.

'Project Fear', as you put it, is a valid warning to Scottish nats.
The UK government might be a net contributor to Scotland at the moment but it's not always been the case every year. With people no longer needing to be office-based and increasing electricity generation north of the border, and potential Scottish EU entry if independent, things may change.
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Old 17-08-2020, 23:09   #3144
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
The UK government might be a net contributor to Scotland at the moment but it's not always been the case every year. With people no longer needing to be office-based and increasing electricity generation north of the border, and potential Scottish EU entry if independent, things may change.
Scotland has been a net beneficiary of the Union for practically the whole of its 313 years, with only a minor blip of around 30-40 years, if you assume that all of the proceeds of North Sea oil actually belong to Scotland (which they don’t: there’s no international frontier in the sea between England and Scotland; most of the oil is in international waters anyway; and the share of it assigned to the U.K. is subject to an international treaty to which the U.K., and not any of its constituent nations, is signatory).
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Old 18-08-2020, 00:16   #3145
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
The UK government might be a net contributor to Scotland at the moment but it's not always been the case every year. With people no longer needing to be office-based and increasing electricity generation north of the border, and potential Scottish EU entry if independent, things may change.
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Old 18-08-2020, 09:05   #3146
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by Chris View Post
Scotland has been a net beneficiary of the Union for practically the whole of its 313 years, with only a minor blip of around 30-40 years, if you assume that all of the proceeds of North Sea oil actually belong to Scotland (which they don’t: there’s no international frontier in the sea between England and Scotland; most of the oil is in international waters anyway; and the share of it assigned to the U.K. is subject to an international treaty to which the U.K., and not any of its constituent nations, is signatory).
I don't disagree with any of that.

As I said to Old Boy earlier, the movement for devolution is about the heart and not the wallet and the SNP doubtless endeared itself with parents by taking the right decision on exam results four days ahead of the UK government.
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Old 18-08-2020, 09:40   #3147
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
The UK government might be a net contributor to Scotland at the moment but it's not always been the case every year. With people no longer needing to be office-based and increasing electricity generation north of the border, and potential Scottish EU entry if independent, things may change.
Oh, wow! So with everyone working at home now, we can scrap the Barnett formula and the Scots would not even notice! Jeez, nice one, Andrew, I'll get on to Boris straight away...

---------- Post added at 09:40 ---------- Previous post was at 09:31 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
I don't disagree with any of that.

As I said to Old Boy earlier, the movement for devolution is about the heart and not the wallet and the SNP doubtless endeared itself with parents by taking the right decision on exam results four days ahead of the UK government.
Yes, I agree the motivation for the Scots is hatred of the English. However, they are also careful with their money - they are renowned for it.

North Sea oil has been a factor in the move towards independence, but that is of diminishing significance as the world moves to clean energy and reserves dwindle. Has the SNP woken up this reality and factored it into their fag packet calculations?

I note your answer to the points I made about the cost of independence, which actually didn't answer those points. 'Project Fear' was a cop out, I expected at least some reasoning in your answer, even if I didn't agree with it.
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Old 18-08-2020, 09:50   #3148
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
The UK government might be a net contributor to Scotland at the moment but it's not always been the case every year. With people no longer needing to be office-based and increasing electricity generation north of the border, and potential Scottish EU entry if independent, things may change.
Have you thought this through? Clearly not. How does what you've said stack up against £75 billion that Barnett provides for Scotland? It's been a subsidy (and I'm happy with that because we are the UK) since 1978 funded from gross UK tax receipts.

As to the oxymoron I've highlighted ......

Lots of "may" and "might".


---------- Post added at 09:50 ---------- Previous post was at 09:49 ----------

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Old 18-08-2020, 10:20   #3149
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
You voted to be poorer in 2016 (per the Government's own economists) so why can't the Scots do the same?
I did not vote to be poorer. If you want to believe these 'experts' who time and again seem to be advising the government incorrectly, then you continue to do that.

Most, if not all Brexiteers believe strongly that we will benefit considerably from detaching ourselves from the bureaucratic and monolithic monster they call the EU.
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Old 18-08-2020, 10:34   #3150
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Oh, wow! So with everyone working at home now, we can scrap the Barnett formula and the Scots would not even notice! Jeez, nice one, Andrew, I'll get on to Boris straight away...

---------- Post added at 09:40 ---------- Previous post was at 09:31 ----------



Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
I don't disagree with any of that.

As I said to Old Boy earlier, the movement for devolution is about the heart and not the wallet and the SNP doubtless endeared itself with parents by taking the right decision on exam results four days ahead of the UK government.
Yes, I agree the motivation for the Scots is hatred of the English. However, they are also careful with their money - they are renowned for it.

North Sea oil has been a factor in the move towards independence, but that is of diminishing significance as the world moves to clean energy and reserves dwindle. Has the SNP woken up this reality and factored it into their fag packet calculations?

I note your answer to the points I made about the cost of independence, which actually didn't answer those points. 'Project Fear' was a cop out, I expected at least some reasoning in your answer, even if I didn't agree with it.
Wow! How to twist someone's words!

Quite how you converted "devolution is about the heart" to "motivation for the Scots is hatred of the English" says more about you than the Scots.

Just like you want the UK to be Sovereign from the EU, couldn't some Scots want to be Sovereign from the UK, without it involving hatred (I'm a Scot, I don't hate the English, and I don't support Devolution).
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