Will Scotland Leave the UK?

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Wow! How to twist someone's words!

Quite how you converted "devolution is about the heart" to "motivation for the Scots is hatred of the English" says more about you than the Scots.

Just like you want the UK to be Sovereign from the EU, couldn't some Scots want to be Sovereign from the UK, without it involving hatred (I'm a Scot, I don't hate the English, and I don't support Devolution).

Be honest, Hugh. You don't like me much. Maybe hatred is a little strong, though..

[Mad Max]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Wow! How to twist someone's words!

Quite how you converted "devolution is about the heart" to "motivation for the Scots is hatred of the English" says more about you than the Scots.

Just like you want the UK to be Sovereign from the EU, couldn't some Scots want to be Sovereign from the UK, without it involving hatred (I'm a Scot, I don't hate the English, and I don't support Devolution).

Same here, and I don't believe that most English people think that Scottish people hate them.

[nashville]

I hope Scotland does not get Independence in my life time or ever, I am ashamed of the way they want to devide four nations, We can all help each other and be strong, but going it along really would worry me, There is too much hate in the SNP ,we should all be friends,

They stand at the border and tell the English to stay away, and get away with it, I am proud to be Scottish and British and always will be, I hope the silent voters put her in her place and get her and her lot out.

---------- Post added at 14:43 ---------- Previous post was at 14:30 ----------

I certainly would not like to take the chance, The SNP hate the English and that is not a way to run a country on hate, They have Scotland divided in two which is wrong,

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Mad Max

Same here, and I don't believe that most English people think that Scottish people hate them.

We have had several Scottish friends over the years and they are excellent company even though we might disagree on a few things.

[Sephiroth]

.... and I don't think she does either (hate us). She's just on a power trip and wants to sit at the EU top table.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by denphone

We have had several Scottish friends over the years and they are excellent company even though we might disagree on a few things.

I agree with that, most Scots are nice people. However the SNP is full of anti-English zealots. Not everyone who votes SNP actually wants independence, but they vote that way to keep Labour out. Not much of a choice for them really.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Be honest, Hugh. You don't like me much. Maybe hatred is a little strong, though..

To be honest, OLD BOY, I have no strong feelings about you - I just don't care about some rando on the internet.

Some of your views, however, I find "unusual"...

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Hugh

To be honest, OLD BOY, I have no strong feelings about you - I just don't care about some rando on the internet.

Some of your views, however, I find "unusual"...

I guess that's as close to a compliment that I am ever going to get from you!

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I will bite only on this little corner of the absurd views you are spinning on this thread, jfman.

The SNP is not acting in the interests of the Scottish people. Whatever anyone's views on Scottish independence, one thing is undeniable (although I expect that you will have a damned good try, against all logic).

England has the biggest population of the union. It makes the most money by far, and it subsidises Scotland very generously by various means, including the Barnett formula. You only have to look at the absence of that formula to realise how negatively independence would impact on the Scottish people. Add to that the various benefits Scotland derives from being part of the UK and pile on the costs of self government, and factor in the rapidly reducing benefits of North Sea oil, not forgetting the disincentives to entrepreneurism under the misguided leftist policies of the SNP, and you have a recipe for disaster. The fact tbat only one page of the SNP's 400-odd page document making the case for independence covered the financial implications of separation shows very clearly that they do not actually have a clue on how to manage an economy.

Separation from the UK will be nothing short of a disaster for Scotland, and for the sake of its people I hope that the economic and currency consequences of leaving can be properly explained to them by someone they will listen to.

Nobody wants to vote to be poorer, as they say in remainer circles. As an economist, you should understand this.

Hook, line and sinker Old Boy. Unquantifiable evidence everywhere which disappoints me though. No speculative blogs?

I’m not sure it’s worth adding to your errr, comprehensive, calculations here. Of course Scotland is too wee, too poor, and not clever enough for you London types that solved the education mystery in a heartbeat.

Be lucky to get unionists to back that line consistently.

I’ll credit Old Boy here as he’s agnostic to ten in a row.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by jfman

Hook, line and sinker Old Boy. Unquantifiable evidence everywhere which disappoints me though. No speculative blogs?

I’m not sure it’s worth adding to your errr, comprehensive, calculations here. Of course Scotland is too wee, too poor, and not clever enough for you London types that solved the education mystery in a heartbeat.

Be lucky to get unionists to back that line consistently.

I’ll credit Old Boy here as he’s agnostic to ten in a row.

OK, fair enough. Now tell us how Scotland can survive as an independant entity.I would love to hear your unbiased (if you have a bias)outlook. Which bank will be chosen to guarantee the Scottish currency to the rest of the world?

Ooops forgot Scotland re- entering the EU so you will be using the Euro so no problem except how long do you expect that to take and what do you do in the meantime?

Will Scotland be able to meet EU requirements? This seems a drawn out process as explained HERE in simple terms.

So as an apparently Scottish economist please answer the following.

a) Who will guarantee Scottish currency to the rest of the world as the Bank of England currently does? Independence would remove that.(or should do).

b) How long do you thik it would take to join the EU as an Indepenent country providing the population of Scotland agree to it?

In betwen a) and b) what happens as far as the populous are concerned?

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

Hook, line and sinker Old Boy. Unquantifiable evidence everywhere which disappoints me though. No speculative blogs?

I’m not sure it’s worth adding to your errr, comprehensive, calculations here. Of course Scotland is too wee, too poor, and not clever enough for you London types that solved the education mystery in a heartbeat.

Be lucky to get unionists to back that line consistently.

I’ll credit Old Boy here as he’s agnostic to ten in a row.

When you've finished with your antagonistic remarks, perhaps you might like to consider answering the points I have made.

Whether or not anyone adds links, and no matter the degree of veracity, you always find a way to try and put others down.

Please stop sniping and start debating. Alternatively, you could keep your anti-everything views to yourself, mate. Disagree if you want, that's allowed and encouraged. But to disagree without giving any reasons is pointless because it simply doesn't add to the debate.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

When you've finished with your antagonistic remarks, perhaps you might like to consider answering the points I have made.

Whether or not anyone adds links, and no matter the degree of veracity, you always find a way to try and put others down.

Please stop sniping and start debating. Alternatively, you could keep your anti-everything views to yourself, mate. Disagree if you want, that's allowed and encouraged. But to disagree without giving any reasons is pointless because it simply doesn't add to the debate.

You've just nailed the SNP strategy on the head.

[Mad Max]

Originally Posted by jfman

Hook, line and sinker Old Boy. Unquantifiable evidence everywhere which disappoints me though. No speculative blogs?

I’m not sure it’s worth adding to your errr, comprehensive, calculations here. Of course Scotland is too wee, too poor, and not clever enough for you London types that solved the education mystery in a heartbeat.

Be lucky to get unionists to back that line consistently.

I’ll credit Old Boy here as he’s agnostic to ten in a row.

[1andrew1]

There's a lengthy article in the FT about this subject. Google "London’s ‘complacency’ puts Scottish independence back in play" if you wish to read it.

Points include:
- The threat was spelt out by Michael Gove on July 21 and the penny has now dropped in the Conservative Party.
- The move towards separation is being driven by Brexit’s unpopularity (62% voted Remain in Scotland) and the belief that Edinburgh has responded better to Covid-19 than London. Other factors encouraging it are the House of Lords unpopularity, the Conservative Party's unpoularity and as JFMan has said, a lack of a convincing narrative for remaining in the Union to meet the emotional arguments head on.
- The most recent survey, conducted by YouGov, this month found that Scottish voters willing to express an opinion would support independence by 53% to 47% per cent - the first time the Yes side has been consistently ahead in a series of opinion polls conducted months apart.
- Boris Johnson vetoed Michael Gove’s suggestion that Nicola Sturgeon be invited to atted cabinet meetings on special occasions as part of a suggested strategy to to work more harmoniously with Edinburgh.
- Michael Gove's strategy has led to UK government ministers visiting Scotland but few ministers have any popularity there with Rishi Sunak being a notable exception.
https://www.ft.com/content/2420501f-...5-46e56d325547

As one Scottish-based FT reader commented

NordicStyle I was pro-Union in 2014 but now I would vote for independence - Brexit and the arrogance of the English as well as their ignorance around the EU has pushed me strongly in favour of independence. [If] The UK is allegedly stronger together, then should that logic not also apply to the UK within the EU? The UK had a uniquely favourable position within the EU - all the intra free trade benefits as well as personal mobility freedoms whilst At the same time having a uniquely large rebate/freedom from the Euro/non-schengen status/and not being required to adopt EU working restrictions. We had our cake and we could eat it.

The UK was attractive to invest in precisely because we had this special structure of exceptions whilst also having the privileges of being within the EU. Thatcher understood that and leveraged that edge with many - notably the Japanese. Having given this all up Scotland has the opportunity to go the Nordic route and re-access the advantages of the EU whilst retaining its own identity and flexibility.

I want independence so that I and my family can rejoin the larger union (the EU) that looks after our Freedoms/our economy/our mobility/and our position in the world vs The likes of China and the US. Sure the EU is not perfect but that can improve and change - prefer those challenges than being a prisoner in a dwindling society with an over rated view of its self importance

Bring it on - I want to be in the single market Rather than in a singular society

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

There's a lengthy article in the FT about this subject. Google "London’s ‘complacency’ puts Scottish independence back in play" if you wish to read it.

Points include:
- The threat was spelt out by Michael Gove on July 21 and the penny has now dropped in the Conservative Party.
- The move towards separation is being driven by Brexit’s unpopularity (62% voted Remain in Scotland) and the belief that Edinburgh has responded better to Covid-19 than London. Other factors encouraging it are the House of Lords unpopularity, the Conservative Party's unpoularity and as JFMan has said, a lack of a convincing narrative for remaining in the Union to meet the emotional arguments head on.
- The most recent survey, conducted by YouGov, this month found that Scottish voters willing to express an opinion would support independence by 53% to 47% per cent - the first time the Yes side has been consistently ahead in a series of opinion polls conducted months apart.
- Boris Johnson vetoed Michael Gove’s suggestion that Nicola Sturgeon be invited to atted cabinet meetings on special occasions as part of a suggested strategy to to work more harmoniously with Edinburgh.
- Michael Gove's strategy has led to UK government ministers visiting Scotland but few ministers have any popularity there with Rishi Sunak being a notable exception.
https://www.ft.com/content/2420501f-...5-46e56d325547

As one Scottish-based FT reader commented

Ah, the remainer publication posted by a remainer quoting a remainer comment.

Why am I not surprised?

Stugeon is the First Minister of a devolved Government and just as the First Minister of Wales is it is up to them what they do in this respect and have no part in what England does in response to the pandemic. It has rightly been left to the devolved Governments to decide what is best for their areas of responsibility.