15-12-2020, 11:50
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#1546
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cf.mega poster
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Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy
Clearly NOT hospitality. IIRC 38% of cases are at Uni's and another 38% related to schools.
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1) Closing them didn't stop it.
2) How are they not similar to any other sort of gathering? They are premises being targeted for testing, so of course you're going to find more cases.
3) Which nonsense report are you using?
4) How and where did the students get it from?
5) Are people at University and Teachers at schools not going anywhere else?
Link
Quote:
Chatting in pubs, restaurants and homes was "mostly" how coronavirus spread before Wales' firebreak lockdown, Public Health Wales has said.
Dr Chris Williams, of PHW's data analysing surveillance team, said most cases had nothing to do with venues making mistakes.
The cases were simply down to how people behaved.
"It's not to do particularly with the nature of the pub or the bar," said Dr Williams.
"It's just the fact that you're talking to someone across a table who's in a different household.
"Talking, unfortunately, is great for transmission, as is singing and shouting.
"Those are the kind of things that we see, that manifest themselves in the rising numbers."
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15-12-2020, 12:03
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#1547
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Perfect Soldier
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Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking
1) Closing them didn't stop it.
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Exactly the point I'm making: It's spreading in other ways and to destroy pubs, restaurants, jobs and livelihoods on a whim is very misguided IMO.
People have just stopped socially distancing outside covid secure venues especially now they're wearing masks and think they're invulnerable. They're all over each other especially teenagers.
__________________
History is much like an endless waltz: The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.
However history will change with my coronation - Mariemaia Khushrenada
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15-12-2020, 12:11
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#1548
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Still alive and fighting
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Posts: 56,308
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Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy
Exactly the point I'm making: It's spreading in other ways and to destroy pubs, restaurants, jobs and livelihoods on a whim is very misguided IMO.
People have just stopped socially distancing outside covid secure venues especially now they're wearing masks and think they're invulnerable. They're all over each other especially teenagers.
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Its not just teenagers though as l have witnessed quite a few older people with the same type of attitude as well.
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“The only lesson you can learn from history is that it repeats itself”
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15-12-2020, 12:32
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#1549
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: #Plagueisland
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Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking
The assumption of this nonsense report is that there were no other factors. Hasidic/Orthodox Jews are an obvious publicised example(eg New York) of people still gathering in large groups. There have been several documented instances from around the world, where there have been multiple infections and deaths arising from large gatherings, especially religious ones(of whatever religion).
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The report does touch on proximity to others in the work place and there is a correlation between COVID death rate and how close you are to others. There is also a correlation between income and overcrowding in the home. Finally, there is a correlation between deprivation percentile and COVID mortality.
Picking up on the Hasidic Jew thing, you can see Jewish men have a pretty high mortality risk.
For what it's looking at, the report seems pretty compelling to me.
Check out section 8a for how much booze and drugs we got through during the first lockdown BTW. White male pensioners with degrees really going for it on the booze!
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15-12-2020, 12:49
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#1550
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cf.mega poster
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Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx
The report does touch on proximity to others in the work place and there is a correlation between COVID death rate and how close you are to others. There is also a correlation between income and overcrowding in the home. Finally, there is a correlation between deprivation percentile and COVID mortality.
Picking up on the Hasidic Jew thing, you can see Jewish men have a pretty high mortality risk.
For what it's looking at, the report seems pretty compelling to me.
Check out section 8a for how much booze and drugs we got through during the first lockdown BTW. White male pensioners with degrees really going for it on the booze!
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I have no doubt you could find all sorts of correlations, eg being a Labour voter.
Hasidic Jews routinely have large gatherings for one thing or another. The stories from New York demonstrated that.
The outbreak occurred BEFORE any lockdowns and behaviour associated with it. The doubling of risk for men was across all racial groups.
The aim is to restrict spreading BETWEEN DIFFERENT households.
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15-12-2020, 13:22
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#1551
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Trollsplatter
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Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking
Utter garbage.
Men in general were more affected than women, where does that come into it. Twice as much, across all groups. Iran was badly affected, including senior government officials. The richer Northern part of Italy was affected more than the poorer South. In the UK hospital consultants not exactly on poverty pay were badly affected. In the UK and the US, Hasidic/Orthodox Jews were badly affected.
The biggest factor was people's behaviour, particularly of still insisting on gathering in large groups.
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I wonder if you even bothered to read the report before trashing it.
I suspect you don’t have evidence to justify discounting it so thoroughly, nor for insisting on your own no doubt exhaustive study of the data. Though having asked I imagine you’re now going to post me a ton of tangentially related links, with minimal interpretive input from your good self.
To the report: it has been recognised from quite an early stage that *mortality* (which what’s at issue here, not mere transmission) is affected by a number of factors. Respiratory health is one such factor, age is another (I suspect that’s a combination of respiratory health plus weaker immune response). However the issue affecting hospital staff, even the young-ish, healthy consultants, is viral load. If you get a big initial dose of virus particles then it multiplies in your body that much faster and your immune system struggles to cope. Viral load is also a major contributor to *mortality* in low income households which are statistically more likely to be living in smaller dwellings, and are more likely to be living in chaotic circumstances where household hygiene is more difficult to maintain.
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15-12-2020, 13:47
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#1552
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: At the Leaving door
Posts: 4,050
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Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx
White male pensioners with degrees really going for it on the booze!
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and why not, waited 65 years to be able to get pi$$ed every evening without the hassle of work the next day
. . . well not too pi$$ed on my pension & bills, but it's the thought that counts
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15-12-2020, 14:45
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#1553
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: #Plagueisland
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Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking
I have no doubt you could find all sorts of correlations, eg being a Labour voter.
Hasidic Jews routinely have large gatherings for one thing or another. The stories from New York demonstrated that.
The outbreak occurred BEFORE any lockdowns and behaviour associated with it. The doubling of risk for men was across all racial groups.
The aim is to restrict spreading BETWEEN DIFFERENT households.
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Our Jewish friends are specifically mentioned in the report;
Quote:
..celebrations to mark the Jewish festival of Purim in
March may have contributed to the spread of the virus
among Jewish communities (76). Many Ultra-Orthodox
Jewish communities, which have high rates of infection,
have limited access to the internet and the media and
may be less likely to adhere to physical distancing and
self-isolation when presenting with symptoms. There
have been several efforts from community leaders to
ensure ultra-Orthodox communities adhere to national
guidelines and safety measures and messaging has been
emphasised during the Jewish holiday season, but high
rates of infection still remained in October
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The report does highlight the differences in mortality between men and women all the way through the relevant chapters. Interestingly, the correlation between deprivation and sex seems much much stronger for men than women (figure 2.4)
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15-12-2020, 21:47
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#1554
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The Invisible Woman
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Re: Coronavirus
I am finding that by making it clear that I wish to maintain the two metre distance, that nearly everyone respects my obvious desire to do so.
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Hell is empty and all the devils are here. Shakespeare..
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15-12-2020, 22:19
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#1555
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The Dark Satanic Mills
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: floating in the ether
Posts: 12,041
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Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy
the correlation between deprivation and sex seems much much stronger for men than women
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Depends how depraved you want your sex.
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15-12-2020, 23:00
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#1556
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Woke and proud !
Join Date: Jun 2004
Services: TV, Phone, BB, a wife
Posts: 9,134
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Re: Coronavirus
Why are we so obsessed about poxy Christmas? Best to give it a miss and see our relatives next year, alive.
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15-12-2020, 23:13
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#1557
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Dr Pepper Addict
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Re: Coronavirus
They will be alive regardless.
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15-12-2020, 23:59
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#1558
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laeva recumbens anguis
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Re: Coronavirus
Not necessarily
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There is always light.
If only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
If my post is in bold and this colour, it's a Moderator Request.
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16-12-2020, 09:13
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#1559
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The Invisible Woman
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Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K
Why are we so obsessed about poxy Christmas? Best to give it a miss and see our relatives next year, alive.
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__________________
Hell is empty and all the devils are here. Shakespeare..
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16-12-2020, 09:25
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#1560
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: #Plagueisland
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Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K
Why are we so obsessed about poxy Christmas? Best to give it a miss and see our relatives next year, alive.
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Agreed! If I was in charge (luckily for all you of that I'm not) I would float the idea of an extra bank holiday tagged on to Easter, May or Whitsun bank holidays saying 'here's the deal, keep your heads down now while things are rough and we can have Christmas 2.0 later when thing get better'
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