Brexit

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

It's very tempting to agree with that. But Corbyn has been playing games and I blame him equally.

The problem is both parties have splits in them as wide as a chasm..

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by jfman

None of these things were specifically stated on the ballot paper, so you’ve no way to quantify which (if any) need to be delivered.

Nor was Norway. We can go on forever revolving around what was on the ballot paper. Thing is that Parliament can't find consensus on what they do want.

At least the rotten TM deal gets us out.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

Actually 100% agree on this point. For Brexit to be achieved it needs a government who can’t be held to the whims of the ERG/DUP.

Which of course explains why Theresa May called that last General Election. She knew she would get a better chance of seeing Brexit through if she could increase her majority.

Shame the strategy failed in the end.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Which of course explains why Theresa May called that last General Election. She knew she would get a better chance of seeing Brexit through if she could increase her majority.

Shame the strategy failed in the end.

That is because whoever advised her that this was the right strategy to use was quite clearly pretty clueless to put it bluntly as the British people are not as stupid as some would have you believe..

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Which of course explains why Theresa May called that last General Election. She knew she would get a better chance of seeing Brexit through if she could increase her majority.

Shame the strategy failed in the end.

It’s because it wasn’t what the public wanted!

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by jfman

It’s because it wasn’t what the public wanted!

If I've understood you correctly, there were other reasons she lost the election. The (ignorant) youth vote, especially in university towns played a significant part in here poor result - of course also significantly driven by her May-bot performance.

I should point out that many of the younger generation still cling to ridiculous notions like without the EU, there will be no grant money.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

If I've understood you correctly, there were other reasons she lost the election. The (ignorant) youth vote, especially in university towns played a significant part in here poor result - of course also significantly driven by her May-bot performance.

I should point out that many of the younger generation still cling to ridiculous notions like without the EU, there will be no grant money.

Can you actually prove that the young do that?

May got a poor result because around half the country don’t want Brexit at all. That’s a precarious electoral position to be in if you are seeking a resounding mandate.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by denphone

That is because whoever advised her that this was the right strategy to use was quite clearly pretty clueless to put it bluntly as the British people are not as stupid as some would have you believe..

But it was the right strategy! What did it for her was the confusion over funding relating to care for the elderly, which spooked a lot of traditional Conservative voters, coupled with the surprising popularity at the time with Jeremy Corbyn.

[jfman]

It wasn’t really confusion over funding. The party came up with one of its most progressive policies ever and their voters said no. Capitalists in life wanting a socialist death.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by jfman

Can you actually prove that the young do that?

May got a poor result because around half the country don’t want Brexit at all. That’s a precarious electoral position to be in if you are seeking a resounding mandate.

Sort of. I've managed to open my daughter's eyes; she reports what her friends (misguidedly) say.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Sort of. I've managed to open my daughter's eyes; she reports what her friends (misguidedly) say.

So it’s anecdotal evidence.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

But it was the right strategy! What did it for her was the confusion over funding relating to care for the elderly, which spooked a lot of traditional Conservative voters, coupled with the surprising popularity at the time with Jeremy Corbyn.

If it was the right strategy then we would not be where we are standing now with the constant internecine warfare in the governing party which could result in Theresa May having to face a delegation from the 1922 Committee in these coming weeks.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

None of these things were specifically stated on the ballot paper, so you’ve no way to quantify which (if any) need to be delivered.

Give over, it is implicit in the term of no longer being in the European Union. Is a party’s manifesto on the ballot paper?

No longer being a member of the EU meant.

Exiting the single market,
Exiting the customs union,
Exiting the four freedoms associated with the single market
No longer being subject to ECJ

The above is what was put to British people, everything since the result has been obfuscate the above.

And people trying to be clever and say (Whiney voice) “it wasn’t on the ballot paper”. We it was.

All this talk in the last two years saying that the type of Brexit wasn’t on the ballot paper has Just been a smokescreen by the MPs to stop Brexit, and guess what, they may do.

---------- Post added at 13:31 ---------- Previous post was at 13:29 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

It’s because it wasn’t what the public wanted!

Was that on the ballot paper?

---------- Post added at 13:32 ---------- Previous post was at 13:31 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

It wasn’t really confusion over funding. The party came up with one of its most progressive policies ever and their voters said no. Capitalists in life wanting a socialist death.

Strange how Labour were against it then?

---------- Post added at 13:34 ---------- Previous post was at 13:32 ----------

Originally Posted by denphone

If it was the right strategy then we would not be where we are standing now with the constant internecine warfare in the governing party which could result in Theresa May having to face a delegation from the 1922 Committee in these coming weeks.

She’s would have needed a majority large enough to out vote the ERG and all the other parties, bar a few Labour Brexiteers, those kind of numbers were never possible.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Give over, it is implicit in the term of no longer being in the European Union. Is a party’s manifesto on the ballot paper?

No longer being a member of the EU meant.

Exiting the single market,
Exiting the customs union,
Exiting the four freedoms associated with the single market
No longer being subject to ECJ

The above is what was put to British people, everything since the result has been obfuscate the above.

And people trying to be clever and say (Whiney voice) “it wasn’t on the ballot paper”. We it was.

All this talk in the last two years saying that the type of Brexit wasn’t on the ballot paper has Just been a smokescreen by the MPs to stop Brexit, and guess what, they may do.

I don’t need to give over anything. There’s no need to be disrespectful simply because you are wrong. Also, it’s impossible to articulate a whiney voice in text alone, it’s a ridiculous notion to suggest otherwise.

Many countries outside the European Union have a varying range of relationships with the trading bloc.

You are attributing what you want from Brexit from a definition that exists in your head only in the desperate hope that’s what it will look like. The good news is that it will not happen because there’s no mandate or political will for it.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

I don’t need to give over anything. There’s no need to be disrespectful simply because you are wrong. Also, it’s impossible to articulate a whiney voice in text alone, it’s a ridiculous notion to suggest otherwise.

Many countries outside the European Union have a varying range of relationships with the trading bloc.

You are attributing what you want from Brexit from a definition that exists in your head only in the desperate hope that’s what it will look like. The good news is that it will not happen because there’s no mandate or political will for it.

With all due respect, that’s bollocks.

It was clear to everyone that the Brexit on offer at the referendum was a so called Hard Brexit. If you didn’t understand that...well.

It was only after the result that Nick Clegg coined the terms Hard and Soft Brexit. He knew what was voted on was a Hard Brexit and being the Europhile he is he immediately started the obfuscation process.