Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[vicz]

it looks like they have but what concerns me is this section g2

By having the services we provide installed in your home and/or by using them you are giving us your consent to use your personal information together with other information for the purposes of providing you with our services, service information and updates, administration, credit scoring, customer services, training, TRACKING use of our services (including processing call, usage, billing, viewing and interactive data), PROFILING YOUR USAGE and PURCHASEING PREFERENCES for so long as you are a customer and for as long as is necessary for these specified purposes after you terminate your services. We may occasionally use third parties to process your personal information in the ways outlined above. THESE third parties are permitted to use the data only in accordance with our instructions.

Doesn't this just refer to the TV service? ie They are talking about film or catchup purchases, not Amazon.com purchases?

[tarka]

The reason for the difference in the share prices I believe is that the last ACTUAL trade was for 1250, but at market close the asking price for phorm shares (those that want to sell) was 1,375.25 and the bid price (those that want to buy) was 1,374.75.

I would imagine that the ask/bid price is probably the more relevant as it represents the buy/sell orders in the market at that time.

Regards...

T

[CWH]

An article on Motley Fool - might have some leverage on how VM/Phorm 'ask the question' regarding the Opt Out.
It appears that the question could be classed as misleading if it doesn't give the full details.

Colin

[AlexanderHanff]

Originally Posted by tarka

The reason for the difference in the share prices I believe is that the last ACTUAL trade was for 1250, but at market close the asking price for phorm shares (those that want to sell) was 1,375.25 and the bid price (those that want to buy) was 1,374.75.

I would imagine that the ask/bid price is probably the more relevant as it represents the buy/sell orders in the market at that time.

Regards...

T

Nah the market closes at the last trade price (buy or sell) or at least that is what it has been doing for the last 3 months with Phorm stock (which is when I started to monitor it). Seems this was just a late posting and hasn't been updated on the markets yet.

Alexander Hanff

[oblonsky]

Originally Posted by Florence

That is very worrying can see most VM customers details out on the open market I thought all ofshore had to be our DATA protection so Kent can have our details in Russia or China or anywhere he decides to put his servers for cheapness..

A few years ago when I was a VM customer (on BT now) I started to get a large amount of spam, so I created a new email address and it was fairly unique and personal to me. After a while, that too got a large amount of spam, so I created a new email address, something along the lines of agkf72hd9@virgin.net.

When this started to get spam I accused VM of harvesting customer email addresses, which they obviously denied. Well their BB (non cable) service was getting really bad by then so I jumped ship to BT.

Just by chance I noticed the 1 MONTH TERMINATION CLAUSE which makes it pretty much impossible to change supplier using your MAC without losing some money (or if it's not then I'd like to hear how). So I waited 2 weeks before using my MAC and BT were really quick so I paid VM a month for doing b_ all.

Anyway I guess what I'm trying to say is that the customer data is already in the public domain, even though VM won't admit it. The minute they shipped data oversees (if indeed they did) is the time everything went on the open market.

BTW nice post serial referring to churn rate. Must have missed it on Badphorm. Someone should write to OFCOM about this patent and Phorm, and also the Competition Comission. Imagine the potential of being denied access to competitor ISPs websites because you've shown behaviour indicating you're looking around. OUTRAGEOUS.

[Rchivist]

Originally Posted by James_Firth

This was you? Do you actually have this email? Sorry I don't doubt you, I would however like a copy if that's okay - like to read between the lines.

As you know, and as I posted earlier, I put a letter to BT outlining my concerns about the cookie model and I really do like to think they actually are listening. You never know I may actually stay on as a customer when my 18-month contract expires this summer.

Yes - I've got a collection of emails mostly from Emma Sanderson but a smattering from the CEO office and one from Adam Liversage - most of what I have had I have posted already, verbatim, either here or on BT Beta or both, but without the senders name - generally posted in a Q&A format.

Which bit were you interested in?

[tarka]

Nah the market closes at the last trade price (buy or sell) or at least that is what it has been doing for the last 3 months with Phorm stock (which is when I started to monitor it). Seems this was just a late posting and hasn't been updated on the markets yet.

It gets reported differently, for example look at the google or yahoo charts and the price they quote in text is the last trade and shows as the closing price as you say, but look at the chart and that shows a different price.

Although I think I have confused the original query. As you say it is possible that the trade was reported late. Reuters update their end of day data twice a day, the second update is a few hours delayed and provides adjusted figures for exactly this sort of thing.

T

[mark777]

I thought the overseas clause in the T&C's was so they could operate their overseas call centres.

Another example of something outwardly reasonable wrapped around a trud.

[AlexanderHanff]

Originally Posted by tarka

It gets reported differently, for example look at the google or yahoo charts and the price they quote in text is the last trade and shows as the closing price as you say, but look at the chart and that shows a different price.

Although I think I have confused the original query. As you say it is possible that the trade was reported late. Reuters update their end of day data twice a day, the second update is a few hours delayed and provides adjusted figures for exactly this sort of thing.

T

Quick calculation shows how much this negative publicity has cost them. Reuters are showing their 52 week high as £37.25 and they closed today at £12.50.

Their highest share capital in the last 52 weeks has therefore been £454M and today as a result of that last trade it stands at bang on £150M (based on the £12.50 sale at the end of the day) or £167.3M if you don't take that £12.50 sale into account.

I expect Kent is more than a little upset that the negative publicity has knocked around £300M off his share capital.

Alexander Hanff

[Deko]

anyone progressing on legal action, whats happened with Mr manwairing !!!

or a judicial review

[Rchivist]

Originally Posted by James_Firth

This was you? Do you actually have this email? Sorry I don't doubt you, I would however like a copy if that's okay - like to read between the lines.

As you know, and as I posted earlier, I put a letter to BT outlining my concerns about the cookie model and I really do like to think they actually are listening. You never know I may actually stay on as a customer when my 18-month contract expires this summer.

The fact that they have been working on a cookie free method of being opted out (or not opted in, they've been a bit vague on that) has been known for a while
http://www.ispreview.co.uk/news/EkpAuVukuVwRJunjrr.html
http://www.clickz.com/showPage.html?page=3629297
and confirmed to me by email by Adam Liversage
also in the locked Webwise FAQ thread post on beta forums - post by Adam Liversage
http://www.beta.bt.com/bta/forums/me...ID=14212#14212

Separate emails to me from Emma Sanderson did not contain this information although it was in the public realm at the time they were sent.

[BeckyD]

Originally Posted by oblonsky

A few years ago when I was a VM customer (on BT now) I started to get a large amount of spam, so I created a new email address and it was fairly unique and personal to me. After a while, that too got a large amount of spam, so I created a new email address, something along the lines of agkf72hd9@virgin.net.

When this started to get spam I accused VM of harvesting customer email addresses, which they obviously denied. Well their BB (non cable) service was getting really bad by then so I jumped ship to BT.

.....

Anyway I guess what I'm trying to say is that the customer data is already in the public domain, even though VM won't admit it. The minute they shipped data oversees (if indeed they did) is the time everything went on the open market.

This, sadly, doesn't surprise me. When my husband signed up with NTL years ago, they got confused with his double-barrelled surname and made a slight typo in the spelling which they've never corrected. Despite explicitly ticking all the relevant boxes refusing consent for his info to be passed to third parties, my husband has regularly received junk mail addressed to this mis-spelt name. No prizes for guessing who sold his personal details.

[jcw00]

Originally Posted by Rob

I beleive that is called spyware

Nothing is installed on your computer, so it can't be spyware.

Lots of sites already track your visits, usage and purchases. Further more outside of your computer if you use Tesco Clubcard, Nectar cards etc. then all of your purchases are tracked, and offers come via Royal Mail, (the only difference these offers and vouchers give you money off products you buy in store).

Originally Posted by R Jones

...they have been working on a cookie free method of being opted out (or not opted in, they've been a bit vague on that)

Yes they are a bit vague on "Opt Out" aren't they?

If you look at all their communications they are almost too obviously averse to using those two actual words.

They say customers can choose to "Opt In" but to opt out customers will select "not to take part".

This is marketing at work, PR... It helps obfuscate and complicate not opting in. It's minor and some would say pedantic but but every little helps in their naughty mission on the marketing front! (IMHO)

Hank

[Rchivist]

Originally Posted by oblonsky

A few years ago when I was a VM customer (on BT now) I started to get a large amount of spam, so I created a new email address and it was fairly unique and personal to me. After a while, that too got a large amount of spam, so I created a new email address, something along the lines of agkf72hd9@virgin.net.

When this started to get spam I accused VM of harvesting customer email addresses, which they obviously denied.

Be aware that dictionary attacks do occur and that even addresses that haven't been created yet can get spam - which of course starts as soon as the address goes live. If your address is an alphanumeric combination it can easily be created on a purely random basis by software designed to churn out all possible combinations of digits and letters for popular domains like hotmail, btinternet.com etc.

The receipt of spam on an email address is not itself proof that the address has been passed to a third party.

Also be aware that anyone you ever emailed using that address, has that address on their machine, and if they get infected by an email harvesting bit of malware, will be responsible for that address getting harvested. (which is why I hate round robin emails that put my address along with a hundred others in the Cc or To fields).

From what you have said it is not clear that VM sold your address.

---------- Post added at 22:39 ---------- Previous post was at 22:35 ----------

Originally Posted by Hank

Yes they are a bit vague on "Opt Out" aren't they?

If you look at all their communications they are almost too obviously averse to using those two actual words.

They say customers can choose to "Opt In" but to opt out customers will select "not to take part".

This is marketing at work, PR... It helps obfuscate and complicate not opting in. It's minor and some would say pedantic but but every little helps in their naughty mission on the marketing front! (IMHO)

Hank

There is a paper waiting to be written, collecting all the deliberately vague things that BT have said or avoided saying about this wretched technology. But we're not stupid! What they don't seem to realise is that their customers have been treated to so much BS over the years that we have developed advanced sensitivity to it and can detect it at a thousand yards. Like when any marketing type uses that word "experience" - as in traffic interception experience, overseas outsourced linguistic obstruction experience, call waiting experience, automatic voice messaging frustration experience etc etc etc.