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Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
View Poll Results: Will you be opting out of the Virgin Ad Deal?
Yes, Definitely. 958 95.51%
No, I am quite happy to share my surfing habits with anyone. 45 4.49%
Voters: 1003. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 20-03-2008, 21:50   #1546
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff View Post
No way to edit it unfortunately, I was already aware of it. I have only had 7 hours sleep so far this week and spent most of last night writing a paper on human rights abuses at Guantanamo Bay, followed by most of today in a meeting for a group project I am managing based around deploying Open Learning Labs into the community where the public can receive free IT training. So I am a little burnt out and despite reading everything 3 or 4 times before hitting submit, still seem to manage the odd typo.

I will take inspiration from the Phorm camp and try harder...

Alexander Hanff
Nice to know there are still people like you out there. You need to take the weekend off and sleep.
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Old 20-03-2008, 22:03   #1547
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucevans View Post
Nice to know there are still people like you out there. You need to take the weekend off and sleep.
I can't go to bed, my 2 yr old son has stolen it, sofa for me again tonight. At least my flu is clearing up a little now.

Never mind Phorm stock, I should invest in coffee futures.

Alexander Hanff
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Old 20-03-2008, 22:14   #1548
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

It looks like BT are responding to customer suggestions about how phorm should operate :-

http://www.beta.bt.com/bta/forums/th...rt=0&start=300

Lets hope VM start listening too
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Old 20-03-2008, 22:28   #1549
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by flashpaul View Post
It looks like BT are responding to customer suggestions about how phorm should operate :-

http://www.beta.bt.com/bta/forums/th...rt=0&start=300

Lets hope VM start listening too
Actually I find that thread almost too disturbing for words. Irrespective of opting in or opting out until they have consent from both parties (the browser and the publisher) this system is in criminal breach of RIPA. No way round this. Lets try and get this point out, it is very important.

Alexander Hanff
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Old 20-03-2008, 22:37   #1550
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by flashpaul View Post
It looks like BT are responding to customer suggestions about how phorm should operate :-

http://www.beta.bt.com/bta/forums/th...rt=0&start=300

Lets hope VM start listening too
Well, since I sent copies of the Slashdot article to Neil Berkett and Ian Woodham they have no excuse for saying they aren't aware of the reasons why customers are concerned.

Reading that page there, seems there's some concern that people have been posting under sockpuppet accounts and that it might have something to do with a PR team? Seems to be an attempt to "obfuscate the debate" as the slashdot posting pointed out...

I think such attempts here would be spotted. I certainly hope so...

Let me make it clear here that I am no fan of BT. If I have to leave VM it will be with extreme reluctance, but the only practical alternatives to VM involve having a BT line. The idea of paying any money to them is so incredibly offensive to me.

But I'm much less of a fan of Phorm and what they stand for, which is even more offensive and must be fought. The RIPA point must be made time and again and in numbers.
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Old 20-03-2008, 22:47   #1551
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

and dont let LadyMinions linked NY times story /Phorm COO's (Chief Operating Officer ) public statement go un-noticed,
get it out there ASAP and watch the PR machine go in to overdrive.

"Quote:
“As you browse, we’re able to categorize all of your Internet actions,” said Virasb Vahidi, the chief operating officer of Phorm. “We actually can see the entire Internet.”

The company, called Phorm, has created a tool that can track every single online action of a given consumer, based on data from that person’s Internet service provider.”
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Old 20-03-2008, 22:52   #1552
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Over on the BT Beta suport forum, BT Spokesman Mark W has stated;

"I understand you might not be particularly trusting of myself and BT at the moment but this isn't a contradiction. What was being talked about in the quote there is that data would be mirrored but not profiled, what we're talking about now is that if opted out data would not even be mirrored. What we're aiming to have in the update next week is a set of diagrams and a walk through explaining how the system will work when it's live, I hope that this will make things a lot clearer for people."

So BT seem to be constantly modifying their position on how their opt-out will work, presumably as a result of pressure from their customers. Their current position appears to be that if a customer opts-out of the Phorm system, then that customer's web traffic will not be mirrored or profiled. This arrangement is the only one which could persuade me to stay with Virgin Media if they introduce Phorm's system to their network.

So what have you got to say, VM?
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Old 20-03-2008, 23:01   #1553
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptJamieHunter View Post
Get on over and give the Phorm PR spin machine hell. Every time the slime tries to spin in public we need to respond in numbers.
Done.

Quote:
Wonder how happy Phorm are that customers of Virgin Media have already started to move to none Phorm Isp’s.

VirginMedia stand to lose a lot of revenue not just on Broadband but on there other packages. Any VirginMedia customer that moves to a non Phorm ISP will have to change there phone line. That will then mean that they will have to disconnect there TV.

So VirginMedia stand to have customers moving to the following. BT, Sky, A Non Phorm ISP.

Virgin will be crazy if they allow that to happen by jumping into bed with Phorm.
---------- Post added at 23:01 ---------- Previous post was at 22:53 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucevans View Post
Over on the BT Beta suport forum, BT Spokesman Mark W has stated;

"I understand you might not be particularly trusting of myself and BT at the moment but this isn't a contradiction. What was being talked about in the quote there is that data would be mirrored but not profiled, what we're talking about now is that if opted out data would not even be mirrored. What we're aiming to have in the update next week is a set of diagrams and a walk through explaining how the system will work when it's live, I hope that this will make things a lot clearer for people."

So BT seem to be constantly modifying their position on how their opt-out will work, presumably as a result of pressure from their customers. Their current position appears to be that if a customer opts-out of the Phorm system, then that customer's web traffic will not be mirrored or profiled. This arrangement is the only one which could persuade me to stay with Virgin Media if they introduce Phorm's system to their network.

So what have you got to say, VM?
Indeed that's my stance as well. I do not want my data to touch any equipment that has been installed in a Virgin Headend or Pop site that has anything to do with the Phorm system. That has been supplied by the Phorm company. That Phorm have any connection with what so ever.

If my data does then it is goodbye Virgin Media hello SKY, BT, Be Unlimited.
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Old 20-03-2008, 23:03   #1554
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Is there a simple web page anywhere that explains the key issues and what people should do about it?

I ask because, although I work in IT, this completely passed me by until I read the Berners-Lee article on the BBC site on Monday. Some Google work that evening brought me more up to date.

None of my collegues, nor anyone else I know has any idea about this.

It strikes me that this campaign needs to go a lot wider (remember the e-mail linked, Downing Street petition against road-use charging).

If I e-mail people I know about this, it would be useful to be able to refer them to a page that simply explains the issues and what to do. e.g. Sign the petition, query ISP, write to MP, send DP notice to ISP and e-mail their friends about it.

Most people I know would be concerned and I believe that only a mass campaign would kill this off for good.
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Old 20-03-2008, 23:06   #1555
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark777 View Post
Is there a simple web page anywhere that explains the key issues and what people should do about it?

I ask because, although I work in IT, this completely passed me by until I read the Berners-Lee article on the BBC site on Monday. Some Google work that evening brought me more up to date.

None of my collegues, nor anyone else I know has any idea about this.

It strikes me that this campaign needs to go a lot wider (remember the e-mail linked, Downing Street petition against road-use charging).

If I e-mail people I know about this, it would be useful to be able to refer them to a page that simply explains the issues and what to do. e.g. Sign the petition, query ISP, write to MP, send DP notice to ISP and e-mail their friends about it.

Most people I know would be concerned and I believe that only a mass campaign would kill this off for good.
http://www.badphorm.co.uk/page.php?2

Should have most things you need, including links to the petition & various other sites...
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Old 20-03-2008, 23:10   #1556
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobbydaler View Post
http://www.badphorm.co.uk/page.php?2

Should have most things you need, including links to the petition & various other sites...
Many thanks.
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Old 20-03-2008, 23:13   #1557
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark777 View Post
Is there a simple web page anywhere that explains the key issues and what people should do about it?
Take a look at The Register's link page to articles on Phorm at http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/02/29/phorm_roundup/

Lots of great articles there to brief you on various aspects of the Phorm system
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Old 20-03-2008, 23:21   #1558
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by "New York Times, 20th March 2008
"As you browse, we’re able to categorize all of your Internet actions,” said Virasb Vahidi, the chief operating officer of Phorm. “We actually can see the entire Internet.”


I'm not shocked that Phorm does that, I'm shocked - in fact totally gobsmacked, that they've let this slip out. Those few words are the most damming to ever come out of Phorms mouth. Copy and past the above quote anywhere and everywhere, the more people know what Virasb Vahidi said, the better.
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Old 20-03-2008, 23:24   #1559
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Blogtastic article by Sophos:

http://www.sophos.com/security/blog/2008/03/1187.html

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Old 20-03-2008, 23:34   #1560
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff View Post
Blogtastic article by Sophos:

http://www.sophos.com/security/blog/2008/03/1187.html

Alexander Hanff
This bit is very good.

Quote:
Sophos has already classified Webwise domains as domains that serve adverts and the users of Sophos Web Appliance WS1000 may choose to block them if they are concerned about their privacy. We will be closely monitoring the Phorm’s practices and we will reclassify the domains if we find that Phorm is being misused.
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