President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Mick

No, you need to include the word ILLEGAL next to immigrants.

I see the liberal approach here to is to completely bypass the outrage at parents using their kids as leverage to break laws by crossing the borders "illegally". No surprise there then.

I certainly know and remember from the President Bush years, a special detention center, Hutto, was built to hold family units, women with children, who were caught at the border trying to illegally enter the country. BUT.... in Obama’s presidency, the center was re-purposed as an adult-only center, presumably because locking up children with the parent is, um, wrong. A shoplifter, who is a parent, doesn't get locked up with their kids. An illegal border crosser should be treated no differently.

If you are following the news then the context is obvious

Glad to know you support this new policy. A growing number of Republican supporters both in the country and in the DC seem to disagree with you. The rhetoric of drawing comparisons with concentration camps is going too far but, the use of constant, demonising propaganda by Trump does bear comparison with Germany in the early 1930's:

Democrats are the problem. They don’t care about crime and want illegal immigrants, no matter how bad they may be, to pour into and infest our Country, like MS-13. They can’t win on their terrible policies, so they view them as potential voters!

Originally Posted by Mick

No it is not sick - they should try to enter the country LEGALLY then.

The parents have themselves to blame for using their kids to gain entry in to a country, illegally.

It's not the kids' fault. You can punish the parents without doing this to children.

The fact you think kids, 20 a cage, having to looking after babies left in the cage with them. Children kept in cages unsure of where their parents are is not sick then I don't know what to say.

I know we have our disagreements but I have to say I am surprised at this.

Originally Posted by ianch99

If you are following the news then the context is obvious

Glad to know you support this new policy. A growing number of Republican supporters both in the country and in the DC seem to disagree with you. The rhetoric of drawing comparisons with concentration camps is going too far but, the use of constant, demonising propaganda by Trump does bear comparison with Germany in the early 1930's:

Like hell it does, far fetched nonsense.

These are ILLEGAL immigrants - they want to be in the U.S they should apply to be there legally. Jeez it's not hard.

I never said I did support the policy, I am as usual pointing out the hypocrisy that there is this sudden fake outrage just because it's Trump, when deportations on a massive scale, that included separations as well happened in the Obama years.

I just don't see how using a kid means it's an automatic get out of jail free card, breaking the law, is breaking the law and that includes entering the country, illegally.

---------- Post added at 22:42 ---------- Previous post was at 22:40 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

It's not the kids' fault. You can punish the parents without doing this to children.

The fact you think kids, 20 a cage, having to looking after babies left in the cage with them. Children kept in cages unsure of where their parents are is not sick then I don't know what to say.

I know we have our disagreements but I have to say I am surprised at this.

Why..?

I am ALL for legal immigration...

I am totally against people smuggling and illegal immigration under any form regardless of any age range.

You can be against immigration while objecting to children being treated like wild animals. It's horrible.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Damien

You can be against immigration while objecting to children being treated like wild animals. It's horrible.

It's terrible to see innocent children being treated this way in 2018 in a rich, educated and developed country whose achievements I have a lot of admiration for. Strategically, I fear it may help the West lose its moral high ground. We can point to human rights atrocities in Iran and Belarus but now such countries will just turn round and point to what is going on in America.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/29/u...port-says.html

WASHINGTON — The Department of Health and Human Services placed more than a dozen immigrant children in the custody of human traffickers after it failed to conduct background checks of caregivers, according to a Senate report released on Thursday.

Examining how the federal agency processes minors who arrive at the border without a guardian, lawmakers said they found that it had not followed basic practices of child welfare agencies, like making home visits.

The Senate’s Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations opened its inquiry after law enforcement officials uncovered a human trafficking ring in Marion, Ohio, last year. At least six children were lured to the United States from Guatemala with the promise of a better life, then were made to work on egg farms. The children, as young as 14, had been in federal custody before being entrusted to the traffickers.

The date of the above Report: 28/1/2016. This happened under Obama’s era! Oh and the pics in this report, those holding centres, suspiciously look like “cages” holding kids to me... So kids who turned up at border, with no adult, thousands separated from their parents....were placed in cages before Trump was elected President, infact he hadn’t been nominated yet as the Republican Primaries Nominee!

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Damien

It's not the kids' fault. You can punish the parents without doing this to children.

The fact you think kids, 20 a cage, having to looking after babies left in the cage with them. Children kept in cages unsure of where their parents are is not sick then I don't know what to say.

I know we have our disagreements but I have to say I am surprised at this.

How? If the kids weren't detained they would simply disappear, as they do in the UK. If you quickly release the parents they they would simply cross the border again.

Are theses "cages" merely a temporary measure in the immediate aftermath of being caught? They are TEMPORARY processing centres.

Their confinement will be a heck of a lot more comfortable than their journey. They didn't fly into the US travelling first class.

There is NO other option, unless you're suggesting the kids are handed over to Mexico.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by nomadking

How? If the kids weren't detained they would simply disappear, as they do in the UK. If you quickly release the parents they they would simply cross the border again.

Are theses "cages" merely a temporary measure in the immediate aftermath of being caught? They are TEMPORARY processing centres.

Their confinement will be a heck of a lot more comfortable than their journey. They didn't fly into the US travelling first class.

There is NO other option, unless you're suggesting the kids are handed over to Mexico.

Surely one option is not to separate children from their parents?

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Surely one option is not to separate children from their parents?

And how would that work?

Originally Posted by nomadking

And how would that work?

The way they did it before?

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

The way they did it before?

Which was? Apart from letting them go and then disappearing.

Originally Posted by Damien

Well for one you agree with an Obama policy. Shame it’s one involving treating children like this.

Well for one nothing Damien - I have already indicated, in an earlier post, I have not agreed with locking up any kids, for any reason.

But at the same time - I do not agree with people smuggling and illegal immigration. The law is the law, whether you are 12, going on 45.

I believe the President met with GOP Politicians last night to ramp up an Immigration Bill that would end separations but the Bill will include changes that would end Chain migration, Lottery, Catch and release and Trump wants $25 Billion for his wall, on the Southern border. This would require bipartisan approach, but the Democrats aren't interested, they rebuked the efforts last night. The Democrats say Trump could end this with an Executive Order, Trump says he can't.

Despite complaints on both sides of the House, politics from both sides is still in play. They are not interested in coming to together for the sake of the children. Republicans and Democrats are as bad as each other and I did not see many complaints from the Democrats and the Media, when children were being locked up in "cages", at these border centres when President Obama was in the White House.

The Immigration laws in America have been problematic for decades and because there is this persistent "Stalemate" on passing laws in Congress, is why it's a mess. It was a mess under Obama and it is still a mess now. Border crossings just keep on happening, there is/was no deterrent.

Originally Posted by nomadking

How? If the kids weren't detained they would simply disappear, as they do in the UK. If you quickly release the parents they they would simply cross the border again.

Are theses "cages" merely a temporary measure in the immediate aftermath of being caught? They are TEMPORARY processing centres.

Their confinement will be a heck of a lot more comfortable than their journey. They didn't fly into the US travelling first class.

There is NO other option, unless you're suggesting the kids are handed over to Mexico.

The difference is that the previous children were unaccompanied - the current ones are being separated from their parents.

Big difference.

And as for Trump's latest initiative, he's basically saying "give me the money for the Wall and the kids get released" - there's a term for that...

[nomadking]

Before the parents who came with kids were simply released("catch and release" policy), never to be seen again. IE they get away with it, thereby encouraging more to come illegally.

No different to locking up parents for any other crime. Happens in the UK on the rare occasions a woman is sent to prison.

You have to lock up the parents, so what are you expected to do with any children? You can't let them loose, you can't lock them up with adults, so what then?

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Mick

I never said I did support the policy, I am as usual pointing out the hypocrisy that there is this sudden fake outrage just because it's Trump, when deportations on a massive scale, that included separations as well happened in the Obama years

Fake outrage? Jeez ...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8407161.html

A dozen Senate Republicans have signed a letter urging Donald Trump to stop separating immigrant families who illegally cross America’s southern border.

---------- Post added at 11:38 ---------- Previous post was at 11:34 ----------

Interesting article on the weekly Bible Study Group held in the White House:

The White House Bible Study group that influenced Trump’s family separation policy