Election 2019 - Week 2

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

Poor management doesn’t equate to the underlying economics being flawed.

---------- Post added at 20:31 ---------- Previous post was at 20:29 ----------



When we’re being price gouged in the absence of competition and the profits and dividends are heading to other countries I think it’s a valid point to raise.

The problem with your flawed way of thinking is that you can't seem to distinguish between your understanding of economics with reality. Nationalisation does not work, and you need to start studying economic history to understand that.

Jfman, I have lived through this. I have experienced the nationalised industries of the 1970s, the three day weeks, the high prices and the poor service. There was insufficient investment and this country was going down the plughole until Thatcher reversed this.

When privatiation came along, everything was transformed. Bright new trains, new cable companies coming in with their new ideas and cheaper prices. Those werre the days of optimism.

When our cable guy came round, we were only interested in reducing our phone costs. I had previously asked BT how much it would cost to install a new phone line for one of my daughters. I was quoted £130 and so I said no (much to the annoyance of my daughter). Shortly afterwards, I asked the cable guy how much it would cost and he said £30.

We then went on to add cable TV to our package!

This is just one little example of the changes that privatisation introduced to the population, and the numerous experiences of people who lived through this period explains the derision that you must be picking up from people like your good self who cannot fathom why most of us do not want to go back to those days.

Yes, private companies are not without fault and must be regulated, but privatisation is better by a country mile than nationalisation.

Let's not make these mistakes yet again.

[jfman]

You can post as much subjective opinion as you like, Old Boy, it doesn't change reality.

You are also ignoring that underinvestment in nationalised industries (and battling the unions) is straight out of the neo-liberal playbook as precursors to privatisation. Those were political choices not the natural evolution of nationalised industry.

The fact that a cable operator installed a phone line subsidised at a fraction of the cost of a BT installation is a total red herring.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

You can post as much subjective opinion as you like, Old Boy, it doesn't change reality.

You are also ignoring that underinvestment in nationalised industries (and battling the unions) is straight out of the neo-liberal playbook as precursors to privatisation. Those were political choices not the natural evolution of nationalised industry.

The fact that a cable operator installed a phone line subsidised at a fraction of the cost of a BT installation is a total red herring.

My dear chap, I am introducing to you the reality of my experience. You can denigrate it as much as you like, but it is my experience and my views of all this at the time were the popular views. Neysayers such as Michael Foot were laughed out of court.

I am not ignoring the underinvestment in nationalised industries, and I am completely surprised that you haven't worked out, as our self appointed economist, that this is the very problem with nationalised industries - governments don't invest in them!! Additionally, an additional problem is that trade unions become unduly politicised and hold the government to ransom.

Jfman, you must surely be better than this. It is all pretty obvious really and you need to stop putting forwards opinions that appear to be designed to cripple this country.

If you really care about the people who live here and their well being, you need to stop promoting the failed policies of the 1970s, of which most of the younger generation has no knowledge.

The cable example I gave is just one example, to help explain my point. If you think that is my only example, think again.

[jfman]

Your experience is simply your skewed perception of reality. That doesn't make it actual reality.

The "popular view" doesn't have any bearing on whether it's right or not. Many things can be used to steer public opinion in a certain direction for political/ideological expediency. I’m glad you’ve accepted under-investment in industry was a political choice.

I will take no lessons from you on what policies I should promote here or elsewhere. Especially in the field of economics.

[muppetman11]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The problem with your flawed way of thinking is that you can't seem to distinguish between your understanding of economics with reality. Nationalisation does not work, and you need to start studying economic history to understand that.

Jfman, I have lived through this. I have experienced the nationalised industries of the 1970s, the three day weeks, the high prices and the poor service. There was insufficient investment and this country was going down the plughole until Thatcher reversed this.

When privatiation came along, everything was transformed. Bright new trains, new cable companies coming in with their new ideas and cheaper prices. Those werre the days of optimism.

When our cable guy came round, we were only interested in reducing our phone costs. I had previously asked BT how much it would cost to install a new phone line for one of my daughters. I was quoted £130 and so I said no (much to the annoyance of my daughter). Shortly afterwards, I asked the cable guy how much it would cost and he said £30.

We then went on to add cable TV to our package!

This is just one little example of the changes that privatisation introduced to the population, and the numerous experiences of people who lived through this period explains the derision that you must be picking up from people like your good self who cannot fathom why most of us do not want to go back to those days.

Yes, private companies are not without fault and must be regulated, but privatisation is better by a country mile than nationalisation.

Let's not make these mistakes yet again.

Mr K doesn’t agree
https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...&postcount=330

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

Your experience is simply your skewed perception of reality. That doesn't make it actual reality.

The "popular view" doesn't have any bearing on whether it's right or not. Many things can be used to steer public opinion in a certain direction for political/ideological expediency. I’m glad you’ve accepted under-investment in industry was a political choice.

I will take no lessons from you on what policies I should promote here or elsewhere. Especially in the field of economics.

Ah, bless! Yes, our visions of reality. Which, being reality, happened at the time!

My reality is not skewed. I lived it, you did not, and you think you know different. Please let's forget we have ever learned anything from experience. Unfortunately, guys like you prefer the fake news.

On this forum, are we not better than that?

---------- Post added at 00:35 ---------- Previous post was at 00:18 ----------

Interesting to note that on the BBC News tonight, even the BBC thought that it was not worth more than the third item on the headlines of the manifesto commitments of Labour's Conference today.

!!!!

---------- Post added at 00:42 ---------- Previous post was at 00:35 ----------

Originally Posted by muppetman11

Mr K doesn’t agree
https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...&postcount=330

Mr K (seems to be a possible connection to 'Kremlin', but could be coincidence!)

The fact is, we got nice new trains with privatisation, although I do acknowledge that some areas in the north did not benefit from that.

If certain posters in this topic dont start toning it down, the will find they will find themselves removed from accessing it, without further warning.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Ah, bless! Yes, our visions of reality. Which, being reality, happened at the time!

My reality is not skewed. I lived it, you did not, and you think you know different. Please let's forget we have ever learned anything from experience. Unfortunately, guys like you prefer the fake news.

On this forum, are we not better than that?

---------- Post added at 00:35 ---------- Previous post was at 00:18 ----------

Interesting to note that on the BBC News tonight, even the BBC thought that it was not worth more than the third item on the headlines of the manifesto commitments of Labour's Conference today.

!!!!

---------- Post added at 00:42 ---------- Previous post was at 00:35 ----------



Mr K (seems to be a possible connection to 'Kremlin', but could be coincidence!)

The fact is, we got nice new trains with privatisation, although I do acknowledge that some areas in the north did not benefit from that.

I do look forward to Sunday mornings to find your middle of the night ramblings. Interesting that your entire basis was "you lived it". As did millions of other people. Some of them extremely bright, some of them less so. Some with the knowledge to fully understand what was going on, some less so. Ian Brady and Myra Hindley were also around then. I'd not really take their views on macroeconomic policy seriously either.

I don’t really think economics is fake news to be honest. Your regular opinion pieces straight from Conservative Party HQ on the other hand...

Moving swiftly on it looks like the pole dancer isn’t happy
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ne-night-stand

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by jfman

Poor management doesn’t equate to the underlying economics being flawed.

---------- Post added at 20:31 ---------- Previous post was at 20:29 ----------



When we’re being price gouged in the absence of competition and the profits and dividends are heading to other countries I think it’s a valid point to raise.

That's without mentioning the lack of investment in certain utilities infrastructure and the horrific levels of debt being loaded on those companies by their foreign owners, you can see what's coming, privatised profits and nationalised debt. It's funny that some of the most anti EU among us are quite happy to be subsudising French consumers electricity bills and German water bills for example, I'm not.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The problem with your flawed way of thinking is that you can't seem to distinguish between your understanding of economics with reality. Nationalisation does not work, and you need to start studying economic history to understand that.

Jfman, I have lived through this. I have experienced the nationalised industries of the 1970s, the three day weeks, the high prices and the poor service. There was insufficient investment and this country was going down the plughole until Thatcher reversed this.

When privatiation came along, everything was transformed. Bright new trains, new cable companies coming in with their new ideas and cheaper prices. Those werre the days of optimism.

When our cable guy came round, we were only interested in reducing our phone costs. I had previously asked BT how much it would cost to install a new phone line for one of my daughters. I was quoted £130 and so I said no (much to the annoyance of my daughter). Shortly afterwards, I asked the cable guy how much it would cost and he said £30.

We then went on to add cable TV to our package!

This is just one little example of the changes that privatisation introduced to the population, and the numerous experiences of people who lived through this period explains the derision that you must be picking up from people like your good self who cannot fathom why most of us do not want to go back to those days.

Yes, private companies are not without fault and must be regulated, but privatisation is better by a country mile than nationalisation.

Let's not make these mistakes yet again.

Funny isn't it how those advocating Maggie's privatisation giveaway forget the major sell offs occured toward the end of regime ie after the strikes stopped...

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Ah, bless! Yes, our visions of reality. Which, being reality, happened at the time!

My reality is not skewed. I lived it, you did not, and you think you know different. Please let's forget we have ever learned anything from experience. Unfortunately, guys like you prefer the fake news.

Your reality is skewed, you lived it, it's in the past, this isn't the1970's, our union and strike laws are among the strictest in the World to ensure a return to those days is next to impossible as the posties found out the other day

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Your reality is skewed, you lived it, it's in the past, this isn't the1970's, our union and strike laws are among the strictest in the World to ensure a return to those days is next to impossible as the posties found out the other day

Untill Comrade Corbyn has the laws changed.

As a veteran i for one will not be voting for Labour due to Comrade Corbyn's association with the IRA. It's that simple

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Sirius

Untill Comrade Corbyn has the laws changed.

As a veteran i for one will not be voting for Labour due to Comrade Corbyn's association with the IRA. It's that simple

Margaret Thatcher's Govt. negotiated more with the IRA than Corbyn ever has. So did John Major, so did Ian Paisley. Corbyn was just at ahead of them. Talking is the only way to bring peace and get anything done, which thankfully the IRA finally realised. Still don't think their should have an amnesty for any murderers though, republican or loyalist.

---------- Post added at 09:14 ---------- Previous post was at 09:08 ----------

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Mr K (seems to be a possible connection to 'Kremlin', but could be coincidence!)

The fact is, we got nice new trains with privatisation, although I do acknowledge that some areas in the north did not benefit from that.

Ah, to be in OBs rose(or should that be blue) tinted world

The North/South divide must be bigger than I thought if you all got nice new trains. I'm guessing you're not a regular train user ....

Originally Posted by Mr K

Margaret Thatcher's Govt. negotiated more with the IRA than Corbyn ever has. So did John Major, so did Ian Paisley. Corbyn was just at ahead of them. Talking is the only way to bring peace and get anything done, which thankfully the IRA finally realised. Still don't think their should have an amnesty for any murderers though, republican or loyalist.

---------- Post added at 09:14 ---------- Previous post was at 09:08 ----------



Ah, to be in OBs rose(or should that be blue) tinted world

The North/South divide must be bigger than I thought if you all got nice new trains. I'm guessing you're not a regular train user ....

And Southern Railways are so punctual, reliable, and such good value for money

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Hugh

And Southern Railways are so punctual, reliable, and such good value for money

Not according to my brothers who think are one of the worst TOC's there are...

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by denphone

Not according to my brothers who think are one of the worst TOC's there are...

And of course that has nothing whatsoever to do with the unions and other matters outside of the companies control.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by nomadking

And of course that has nothing whatsoever to do with the unions and other matters outside of the companies control.

The TOC Southern the govenment and the unions have all had years to sort out these problems but of course its the commuters who end up taking the full brunt with poor unsatistactory services prevelant throughout those years.

Governments , Southern and the unions are all to blame at the end of the day but still its alright for the commuters to bear the brunt of it all as that does not seem to matter in all this until they want to fleece the customer with its high ticket prices.