Brexit (Old)

Originally Posted by Mick

There is no evidence of any kind that Millions of leave voters have died - no way to comprehensively say otherwise.

No but many people in a demographic which was overwhelmingly Brexit supporting have died.

I am still YOUNG and very Euro-sceptic, I have no plans to die any time soon to suit some of you Remainers.

I really cannot believe how pathetic this discussion has become.

We're talking about demographics as a whole. There will be elderly Remainers and young Leavers. However demographically the majority of older people voted Leave and the majority of younger people voted Remain.

This is not an atypical way people think of the electorate. It's perfectly normal to discuss it. There are whole sections of political science that spend their time thinking about how changing demographics impact elections.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Mick

And yes, I wonder why you and other Remainers keep having to be reminded!!!

I’d prefer to not be called a remainer to be honest. I think we could make a success of Brexit but not in these chaotic circumstances. A second referendum would actually be helpful to the cause at present.

---------- Post added at 20:10 ---------- Previous post was at 20:08 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

This is not an atypical way people think of the electorate. It's perfectly normal to discuss it. There are whole sections of political science that spend their time thinking about how changing demographics impact elections.

Indeed, Sinn Fein entered the peace process on this basis. The difference in elections is now down to the small thousands between Unionist and Nationalists.

Originally Posted by Damien

No but many people in a demographic which was overwhelmingly Brexit supporting have died.

And so could have Remainers - we will never know for certain, it cannot be measured.

---------- Post added at 20:21 ---------- Previous post was at 20:17 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

A second referendum would actually be helpful to the cause at present.

I don't, we've had this discussion btw. A second referendum would just pro-long everything, causing business uncertainty and you could lose again, will you demand a third, make it the best of 5?

[denphone]

Originally Posted by jfman

I’d prefer to not be called a remainer to be honest. I think we could make a success of Brexit but not in these chaotic circumstances. A second referendum would actually be helpful to the cause at present.

A second referendum is highly likely to cause even more division then we already have.

[jfman]

No, after a second referendum the parties and politicians have to make the case for a type of Brexit and put it to a GE. That way you aren’t at the whim of a few disgruntled ex-Ministers with marginally more friends than they have fingers on one hand.

We need a Government who enters negotiations with a destination in mind.

Sadly, if the leave camp cannot come to this conclusion it will implode under it’s own venom and people will vote to remain to end uncertainty. If we are lucky the leave camp will blame each other, and possibly Theresa May but she’s toast anyway and can fall on her sword in the national interest.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by jfman

No, after a second referendum the parties and politicians have to make the case for a type of Brexit and put it to a GE. That way you aren’t at the whim of a few disgruntled ex-Ministers with marginally more friends than they have fingers on one hand.

We need a Government who enters negotiations with a destination in mind.

Sadly, if the leave camp cannot come to this conclusion it will implode under it’s own venom and people will vote to remain to end uncertainty.

And you think by having a second referendum the falsehoods , fabrications ,etc . etc , etc from politicians from both sides are going to be suddenly going away , Somehow leopards don't change their spots.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by ianch99

I think you mean the majority of the electorate who voted i.e. the 37% ?

So in your perverse view, the majority of the electorate who voted to leave should be told 'Tough, the losers will overturn your vote'.

This is such a nonsense argument. Why post it?

[jfman]

Originally Posted by denphone

And you think by having a second referendum the falsehoods , fabrications ,etc . etc , etc from politicians from both sides are going to be suddenly going away , Somehow leopards don't change their spots.

In that case the people would have to remove any obstacles in a General Election.

The flaws of the first referendum and squabbling internal divisions in both parties have cost us two years of negotiations. A General Election should be after a second referendum putting May’s best deal against Corbyn’s “jobs first Brexit” when drilled down into the details. That way we can have no wriggle room: people voted for a clear vision of Brexit in the full knowledge of the EU position and economic forecasts.

Until that happens the politicians have just enough cover to sabotage this.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

By counting the 52% today you will be including a reasonable number of people who are dead.

The problem with that disgusting argument is that younger people get older and gain common sense.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The problem with that disgusting argument is that younger people get older and gauin common sense.

Hmmmm Common sense is not just the domain of older people as there are many younger people who have plenty of common sense out there..

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

So in your perverse view, the majority of the electorate who voted to leave should be told 'Tough, the losers will overturn your vote'.

This is such a nonsense argument. Why post it?

I wouldn’t call it perverse given the allegations of fraud and corruption. Indeed, it seems to be the direction Parliament is edging towards. To the point you yourself posted we need a general election to resolve this.

Seems quite reasonable that such major constitutional change should require a majority of the actual electorate to actively want it.

---------- Post added at 20:43 ---------- Previous post was at 20:42 ----------

Originally Posted by denphone

Hmmmm Common sense is not just the domain of older people as there are many younger people who have plenty of common sense out there..

Indeed, older generations get to just be bitter about the war and on average live a short period with the consequences with their pensions protected. Younger people have to live fifty years with the economic consequences of this bitterness.

Originally Posted by jfman

I wouldn’t call it perverse given the allegations of fraud and corruption. Indeed, it seems to be the direction Parliament is edging towards. To the point you yourself posted we need a general election to resolve this.

Seems quite reasonable that such major constitutional change should require a majority of the actual electorate to actively want it.

---------- Post added at 20:43 ---------- Previous post was at 20:42 ----------



Indeed, older generations get to just be bitter about the war and on average live a short period with the consequences with their pensions protected. Younger people have to live fifty years with the economic consequences of this bitterness.

Utter twaddle - I’m young enough to live another 50 years and I do not want my country to be in the corrupted EU !!!

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

I wouldn’t call it perverse given the allegations of fraud and corruption. Indeed, it seems to be the direction Parliament is edging towards. To the point you yourself posted we need a general election to resolve this.

Seems quite reasonable that such major constitutional change should require a majority of the actual electorate to actively want it.

---------- Post added at 20:43 ---------- Previous post was at 20:42 ----------



Indeed, older generations get to just be bitter about the war and on average live a short period with the consequences with their pensions protected. Younger people have to live fifty years with the economic consequences of this bitterness.

What ridiculous assumptions you make and what utter twaddle you come out with. I will not take part any more in this ridiculous nonsense.

This country is now in an impossible position because of the undemocratic activities of remainers and you have no practical solutions of your own - none of you do.

I'm out.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

So in your perverse view, the majority of the electorate who voted to leave should be told 'Tough, the losers will overturn your vote'.

This is such a nonsense argument. Why post it?

Nothing perverse here. You keep misrepresenting the facts to reinforce your position. Keep saying the "majority of the electorate" instead of "majority of the electorate who voted" and I will keep correcting you.

There is a big difference between 37% and 50% ...

[Dave42]

watched some of debate and seen one conservative brexiteer admited no way a no deal be allowed by parliament and she gonna vote for May's deal