Brexit

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Mythica

How is it pedantry when someone says the EU provides no benefits to then point out a benefit that the EU brought to the UK?

Your analogy would work if the working time directive already existed as it does now before the EU law was brought in, but it didn't so it doesn't work.

I would like to know what the benefit of the working time directive actually was. It was certainly not of any benefit to me.

I’ve voted (postal) - out of the country next Thursday.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Mythica

How is it pedantry when someone says the EU provides no benefits to then point out a benefit that the EU brought to the UK?

Your analogy would work if the working time directive already existed as it does now before the EU law was brought in, but it didn't so it doesn't work.

The Working Time Directive was NOT brought in by the EU in order to be a benefit. It was to burden the whole of the EU with the same rules that already applied in Germany.


If employers were really meant to monitor health and safety, then they would have to be allowed to monitor what people did outside of their jobs. Bit pointless having limits on workinghours, if people are doing other jobs, have active hobbies, or going out to the early hours taking all sorts of drinks and drugs.

The European Court of Justice (ECJ) ruled on Tuesday that EU member states must require employers to set up a system that tracks time worked each day by each employee to ensure labor laws are complied with. "Member States must require employers to set up an objective, reliable and accessible system enabling the duration of time worked each day by each worker to be measured," the court said in its ruling.

...
A German confederation of employers said that the ruling was tantamount to demanding a return to workers punching in and punching out on arrival and departure, calling this impractical given modern working practices, smartphones, home offices and the like.

Something to look forward to.

Originally Posted by pip08456

I would like to know what the benefit of the working time directive actually was. It was certainly not of any benefit to me.

Why not? - you could have opted out.

[Mythica]

Originally Posted by pip08456

I would like to know what the benefit of the working time directive actually was. It was certainly not of any benefit to me.

It was benefit to people who could have been made to work longer hours and had no legal come back. Those that want to work longer hours can also opt out of the working time directive.

Originally Posted by Mr K

Some people see things as black and white. All good or all bad, it isn't that simple. To say the EU don't provide any benefit is ludicrous. Farmers subsidiies, structure funds for deprived regions, workers rights, the list is long. As with many things people will realise until it's gone. Any saving you can bet won't be as fairly distributed. I predict the rich will get richer and everyone else poorer, hence the millionaires and affluent politicians desperate for Brexit.

Yet again, I am having to correct you.

They are not EU funds or subsidies.

I am going to say this really clear, so you understand it.

We are currently a NET Contributor to the EU and have been for a long time, in other words, in really simple terms, we put far more in than we get out.

So those subsidies and funding from the EU that you mention above, that I have bolded, is not their money, they are not some charitable cause, giving freely to us out of the goodness of their heart, that is our money we have given them, that they are giving back, minus their cut!!!

[Mythica]

Originally Posted by nomadking

The Working Time Directive was NOT brought in by the EU in order to be a benefit. It was to burden the whole of the EU with the same rules that already applied in Germany.


If employers were really meant to monitor health and safety, then they would have to be allowed to monitor what people did outside of their jobs. Bit pointless having limits on workinghours, if people are doing other jobs, have active hobbies, or going out to the early hours taking all sorts of drinks and drugs.


Something to look forward to.

Was it not? I think you're twisting something to suit your own agenda. I can see nothing but positives about the working time directive.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by nomadking

The Working Time Directive was NOT brought in by the EU in order to be a benefit. It was to burden the whole of the EU with the same rules that already applied in Germany.

If employers were really meant to monitor health and safety, then they would have to be allowed to monitor what people did outside of their jobs. Bit pointless having limits on workinghours, if people are doing other jobs, have active hobbies, or going out to the early hours taking all sorts of drinks and drugs.

Something to look forward to.

Certain jobs like train drivers etc you can't drink alcohol the night before work and you'd be found out on random tests. The UK suffers from poor productivity so anything that addresses this issue is a positive in my book.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Certain jobs like train drivers etc you can't drink alcohol the night before work and you'd be found out on random tests. The UK suffers from poor productivity so anything that addresses this issue is a positive in my book.

But the Working Time Directive doesn't only apply to certain jobs. Still leaves what people get up to outside of work. Which is worse? Working 60 hours/wk and staying awake for 16 hours/day, or working 40hrs/wk but staying awake for 20 hours/day.
Eg Many years ago I worked in central London, but lived up here in Northampton. I had to get up each day at 5am and not get back home until 8pm. Not good for my health, but even with any limits on working hours, it wouldn't have changed anything.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by nomadking

But the Working Time Directive doesn't only apply to certain jobs. Still leaves what people get up to outside of work. Which is worse? Working 60 hours/wk and staying awake for 16 hours/day, or working 40hrs/wk but staying awake for 20 hours/day.
Eg Many years ago I worked in central London, but lived up here in Northampton. I had to get up each day at 5am and not get back home until 8pm. Not good for my health, but even with any limits on working hours, it wouldn't have changed anything.

You can't catch every criminal but if you can catch some then it's worth doing. I think Damien pointed that analogy out before and it applies here too.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

You can't catch every criminal but if you can catch some then it's worth doing. I think Damien pointed that analogy out before and it applies here too.

Drug testing is absolutely nothing to do with the Working Time Directive. Still plenty of jobs where booze and/or drugs would be a health and safety issue, but mysteriously it's not in the Working Time Directive. If the WTD was truly about H&S, then it would be.

[Sephiroth]

The WTD as a H&S measure was a French stitch up to prevent the UK from having competitive advantage over their archaic working practices.

Corruption or what?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by nomadking

The Working Time Directive was NOT brought in by the EU in order to be a benefit. It was to burden the whole of the EU with the same rules that already applied in Germany.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

The WTD as a H&S measure was a French stitch up to prevent the UK from having competitive advantage over their archaic working practices.

You guys need to make your Continental conspiracies consistent before posting them here.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

You guys need to make your Continental conspiracies consistent before posting them here.

It was some foreign johnny's what did it gov.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Why not? - you could have opted out.

How would opting out make it beneficial?