US President Joe Biden

Originally Posted by Pierre

You can't really compare Trump and Biden.

Trump was actually the President, whereas Biden may be in the position but there is no way he is making any of the decisions.

Also Trump had the whole of the media against him, whereas Biden is getting so much of easy ride it's laughable.

Can you imagine what it would be like if Trump was still in power during this debacle?

Can you imagine the headlines if Trump challenged about Afghans falling from USAF jets brushed it aside saying " that was days ago?"

You’re wasting your time. Maggy has obsessional hate of Mr Trump, and it blinds her from the obvious reality that Biden is and has been a complete disaster for President.

---------- Post added at 10:00 ---------- Previous post was at 09:49 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

They're two poor Presidents in my book. Although Biden has been more successful on domestic politics and Covid than Trump was, this success has been negated by the chaotic scenes taking place in Afghanistan and the long-term implications of it.

No he has not been successful domestically at all, he has a easy ride with the media, it’s so obvious, it’s pathetic, look at the bloody migrant crisis, thousands at the Texas Border. Inflation rising, Gas and energy price rises, substantial job losses at the keystone pipeline network. His success with Covid is debatable, he wasn’t the president when the vaccine program had been expedited and rolled out.

Originally Posted by Pierre

You can't really compare Trump and Biden.

Trump was actually the President, whereas Biden may be in the position but there is no way he is making any of the decisions.

Also Trump had the whole of the media against him, whereas Biden is getting so much of easy ride it's laughable.

Can you imagine what it would be like if Trump was still in power during this debacle?

Can you imagine the headlines if Trump challenged about Afghans falling from USAF jets brushed it aside saying " that was days ago?"

Biden is rightly getting pilloried for the Afganistan mess.

Besides, We don't really need to imagine what it would be like if Trump was in power. He is the one who did the deal with the Taliban and had an earlier deadline for leaving.

Both have been useless and terrible on Afghanistan.

I don’t think Trump would have allowed this Afghanistan take over so easily. Biden pulled the plug so fast, gear and military equipment left on the field. Yes it was a Trump policy, but he would have struck a hardline with these Terrorist scumbags, not what Biden is doing, Taliban have Biden wrapped round their little fingers.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

I don’t think Trump would have allowed this Afghanistan take over so easily. Biden pulled the plug so fast, gear and military equipment left on the field. Yes it was a Trump policy, but he would have struck a hardline with these Terrorist scumbags, not what Biden is doing, Taliban have Biden wrapped round their little fingers.

Biden merely continued Trump's disastrous plan when he should have known better.

Trump waved the white flag of surrender when he signed that terrible deal with the Taliban. Apart from giving the Taliban the keys to the Mar-a-Lago Club, there's little more he could have conceded to them. Worst deal ever!

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Biden merely continued Trump's disastrous plan when he should have known better.

Trump waved the white flag of surrender when he signed that terrible deal with the Taliban. Apart from giving the Taliban the keys to the Mar-a-Lago Club, there's little more he could have conceded to them. Worst deal ever!

As has been posted on here several times, withdrawl from Afghanistan goes back to Obama. The USA were going to leave at some point regardless of who the president is.

The USA leaving is not the issue, it's how they are leaving that is the issue and that is Bidens own work*.

*the work of those working him from behind.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Pierre

As has been posted on here several times, withdrawl from Afghanistan goes back to Obama. The USA were going to leave at some point regardless of who the president is.

The USA leaving is not the issue, it's how they are leaving that is the issue and that is Bidens own work*.

*the work of those working him from behind.

As has been posted on here several times, the withdrawal deal was negotiated by Trump.
No one's disputing that the country would be occupied forever.

Both how the USA is leaving and also the state of the country they're leaving behind - effectively a failed state - are the issue.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

As has been posted on here several times, the withdrawal deal was negotiated by Trump.
No one's disputing that the country would be occupied forever.

Both how the USA is leaving and also the state of the country they're leaving behind - effectively a failed state - are the issue.

I don’t care how much you try sugar cost this blame game away from Biden, he’s the president, he finalised the withdrawal in such gung-ho fashion.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

I don’t care how much you try sugar cost this blame game away from Biden, he’s the president, he finalised the withdrawal in such gung-ho fashion.

No sugar-coating on my part, most of the blame lies with hapless Biden as he has had the chance to change his mind.

[Carth]

I don't get this 'blame game mentality'

Everyone knew at least two years ago that the 'occupying' forces were being pulled out. In that time, it seems only the Taliban had the gumption to plan ahead for that event because the Afghanistan leadership certainly didn't have anything in place.

We'd outstayed the welcome, they took the money and ran.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Carth

I don't get this 'blame game mentality'

Everyone knew at least two years ago that the 'occupying' forces were being pulled out. In that time, it seems only the Taliban had the gumption to plan ahead for that event because the Afghanistan leadership certainly didn't have anything in place.

We'd outstayed the welcome, they took the money and ran.

50000 people outside the airport indicate to me we hadn't out stayed our welcome at all, you know how many fatalities the army has suffered in the last 5 years over there, one in an accident, whilst I'm not diminishing that tragedy for a so called forever war that is pretty low

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

50000 people outside the airport indicate to me we hadn't out stayed our welcome at all, you know how many fatalities the army has suffered in the last 5 years over there, one in an accident, whilst I'm not diminishing that tragedy for a so called forever war that is pretty low

They're not looking for us to stay. They just want a free plane ride out into our countries. Just look at the number of them that have previously come here.
Eg Abu Hamza

15 April 1958 - born Alexandria, Egypt
1979 - travelled to England
1987 - meets founder of Afghan Mujahideen
1997 - arrives at Finsbury Park Mosque
2002 - gives speech praising 9/11 hijackers
2004 - arrested on terrorism charges
2006 - convicted and jailed for seven years
2012 - extradited to the US after a long legal battle
2014 - goes on trial in New York

If the departure had been announced in advance, that would've given time for an even greater horde to turn up from outside Kabul, all looking for that free plane ride.

[Carth]

Those '50000 people outside the airport' wouldn't even be there if the Taliban hadn't had the cheek and audacity to just walk in and take over . . with hardly a ripple of opposition by the very people we're supposed to have armed and trained.

I repeat, took the money and ran

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Carth

Those '50000 people outside the airport' wouldn't even be there if the Taliban hadn't had the cheek and audacity to just walk in and take over . . with hardly a ripple of opposition by the very people we're supposed to have armed and trained.

I repeat, took the money and ran

There was no money, it'll all come out eventually what happened but I wouldn't be shocked to see a lot of those very people opposing them and getting support from the population

Originally Posted by Mick

I don’t think Trump would have allowed this Afghanistan take over so easily. Biden pulled the plug so fast, gear and military equipment left on the field. Yes it was a Trump policy, but he would have struck a hardline with these Terrorist scumbags, not what Biden is doing, Taliban have Biden wrapped round their little fingers.

I think he would have. He is the one who made the deal. He wanted to withdraw sooner and he was slamming Biden when he delayed it a few months.

But at the end of the day it doesn't matter because Trump isn't in charge. The Taliban had already broken the deal so there was no requirement for the Americans to abide by it.

So what I think Trump would have done doesn't matter. Biden is responsible.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Damien

So what I think Trump would have done doesn't matter. Biden is responsible.

Correct.