Brexit - Page 174

OLD BOY · 24-05-2019, 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

An absolute fantasy.

If it was that easy why haven’t we done it? Theresa would still be PM with her feet up and polling numbers in the 40s.

That is for Theresa May to answer. I suspect it was because she was aiming at a 'compromise', which in the end satisfied nobody.

jfman · 24-05-2019, 20:11

The far more likely answer is it’s not possible. I’d put no deal at all as more likely than that. I don’t rate that as very likely either.

Pierre · 24-05-2019, 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

Semantics. The extension in itself was legislation.

It’s not, in so far as if the PM refuses to bend to parliament, there is nothing Parliament can do to prevent us leaving.

Brexit has failed so far for one reason and one reason only. May didn’t have the spine to carry it through.

richard s · 24-05-2019, 20:23

So if we have a general election at some point would Farage and his cohorts come to power. Yikes. Sh** and Fan come to mind.

jfman · 24-05-2019, 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre

It’s not, in so far as if the PM refuses to bend to parliament, there is nothing Parliament can do to prevent us leaving.

Brexit has failed so far for one reason and one reason only. May didn’t have the spine to carry it through.

The statutory instrument to amend the withdraw act is legislation. Semantics as I said. Boris, or whoever, still has to solve the Parliamentary arithmetic.

1andrew1 · 24-05-2019, 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip08456

Faced with someone willing to walk away without a deal alters the whole dynamics of negotiations.

As jfman has explained to Old Boy, it doesn't matter if the PM is willing to walk away, the PM is unable to so as Parliament is opposed to no deal.

papa smurf · 24-05-2019, 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by richard s

So if we have a general election at some point would Farage and his cohorts come to power. Yikes. Sh** and Fan come to mind.

If we do not leave the EU then a Farage Government is inevitable,remainers are doing the work for him.

1andrew1 · 24-05-2019, 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I've seen all that nonsense, but this is put forward by people who don't want to see Britain leave. Look, Article 24 exists, and all that is required is a joint statement of intent about what the EU and the UK wants to achieve from a trade agreement.

Even if there were an objection raised by another country, it would take 2 years at least to go through the legal process, by when we should have a trade agreement.

Full Fact is not a Remainer organisation Old Boy. It's an independent fact-checking service.

Quote:

We don't take sides in any debate and don't support any political party or campaign. We've been quoted by politicians on all sides and corrected people on all sides. We have a cross-party Board of Trustees and safeguards in place at every level of our organisation to ensure our neutrality.

https://fullfact.org/about/

jfman · 24-05-2019, 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf

If we do not leave the EU then a Farage Government is inevitable,remainers are doing the work for him.

No it isn’t. Tactical voting can ensure remain parties win constituencies.

denphone · 24-05-2019, 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Full Fact is not a Remainer organisation Old Boy. It's an independent fact-checking service.

https://fullfact.org/about/

It tells the truth unlike some organisations..

pip08456 · 24-05-2019, 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

As jfman has explained to Old Boy, it doesn't matter if the PM is willing to walk away, the PM is unable to so as Parliament is opposed to no deal.

jfman seems to think parliament can use a statutory instrument to legislate and amend the withdrawal act. It cannot. Parliament can only approve or reject a statutory instrument laid before it by the Government.

Parliament has only rejected no deal by indicative vote, the default no deal exit still stands and parliament cannot change it.

That does not mean the future PM will not seek a further extention if he/she thinks there is a possibility of a deal being made.

Pierre · 24-05-2019, 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

As jfman has explained to Old Boy, it doesn't matter if the PM is willing to walk away, the PM is unable to so as Parliament is opposed to no deal.

But as Jfman, and you, seem unable to comprehend is that although Parliament is opposed to no deal. No bill has been put forward to prevent it and until one is, and passed, the government can take us out with no deal on Oct 31st simply by doing nothing.

If we have a PM that believably is willing to do that, it may provide a different dynamic.

Alternatively, if the EU believe they will have a member state that will disrupt the project, such as a PM that may vetoe the EU budget and just be a thorn in the project, they may decide the best solution is to cut us free, and offer no revised deal or extension, and as such we leave on Oct 31st with no deal.

Sephiroth · 24-05-2019, 21:38

The future PM should do the following:

1 Tear up the WA;

2 Ask the EU for an extension to negotiate a new WA;

3 Expect the EU to refuse and we leave on 31-October.

I don't expect the EU to do a trade deal with us after that because those charlatan's won't have got our 39 billion, which we should then put to good use for our country's further development.

**Damien** · 24-05-2019, 21:46

What's going to stop the new PM facing the same problems are the old one?

---------- Post added at 21:46 ---------- Previous post was at 21:44 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I don't expect the EU to do a trade deal with us after that because those charlatan's won't have got our 39 billion, which we should then put to good use for our country's further development.[/COLOR]

Then they'll make the 39 billion conditional for any future arrangement. They're the 2nd largest, or largest depending how you count, singular economic bloc in the world and they're on our doorstep. We can't not do a deal with them at some point.

jfman · 24-05-2019, 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre

But as Jfman, and you, seem unable to comprehend is that although Parliament is opposed to no deal. No bill has been put forward to prevent it and until one is, and passed, the government can take us out with no deal on Oct 31st simply by doing nothing.

If we have a PM that believably is willing to do that, it may provide a different dynamic.

Alternatively, if the EU believe they will have a member state that will disrupt the project, such as a PM that may vetoe the EU budget and just be a thorn in the project, they may decide the best solution is to cut us free, and offer no revised deal or extension, and as such we leave on Oct 31st with no deal.

You are making the false assumption Parliament will stand idly by. It has consistently shown it will not. A PM being “serious“ isn’t going to change a thing.