Another day, another mass shooting

Please be patient while citizens exercise their constitutional rights.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45315970

Several people have been killed in a mass shooting at an entertainment complex in Jacksonville, Florida, police say.
The sheriff's office said on Twitter that many people had been wounded and urged people to avoid the area.

[Lutherf]

I'm no Constitutional scholar but I'm rather certain that homicide is not a Constitutionally protected right.

[1andrew1]

SkyNews is reporting three dead including the killer. https://news.sky.com/story/live-mass...ament-11483201

[adzii_nufc]

Was an event but was being hosted in a pizza restaurant rather than a large scale gig so security isn't that questionable here. Was a pistol so again easily concealed.

It was actually being streamed live. A laser sight briefly appears on a competitors chest before shots ring out. Presumably the two people on camera are those dead and the gunman then shot off his capacity before shooting himself.

Allegedly but now seemingly true since they've identified him, he was a fellow competitor that lost... A video game. His identity and that story were already leaking via people at the event before police confirmed his name.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Chris

Please be patient while citizens exercise their constitutional rights.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45315970

Give it a short while and it will all happen all over again sadly.

[Mr K]

It's their country, let them get on with shooting each other. It's what they voted for.

Originally Posted by Lutherf

I'm no Constitutional scholar but I'm rather certain that homicide is not a Constitutionally protected right.

Quite.

But the constitution does nothing to make these things less likely, does it?

[Hom3r]

We should ban any NRA or pro-NRA from entering the UK.

I would go as far as treating it as a terrorist organisation.

[Lutherf]

The Constitution was not enacted so that the government could manage the people. It was enacted so that the people could manage the government. The fundamental principle of American is (or at least was) that individual liberty must be preserved. Among the rights necessary to preserve individual liberty is the right to self defense. That is why the 2nd Amendment is so fiercely defended.

Any weapon which can be used for self defense can, naturally, be used offensively as well. The question, therefore, is how substantially do we want to restrict the very fundamental right of self defense in an effort to mitigate the possibility of an offensive attack. The answer to that question for a great number of Americans is "not very much".

With more than 300 million citizens and a rate of gun ownership around 25% one would think that if guns are the problem then the US homicide rate should be astronomical. It isn't. It's roughly 4 times as high as the homicide rate in the UK but if you look a little deeper you will also find that a limited number of metropolitan areas [and limited neighborhoods in those metropolitan areas] account for the vast majority of that rate. Cities like New Orleans, Baltimore and St. Louis have astronomical homicide rates while other cities have much lower rates. Even in the same state there are dramatic differences. San Diego, California has a homicide rate not that different than the UK while Los Angeles has a murder rate nearly 4 times higher. The same gun laws apply in both cities. Both cities heavily restrict gun ownership. Why then is the homicide rate so different?

If you really want to discuss the relationship between guns and homicide that difference between San Diego and Los Angeles needs to be part of the discussion. Likewise, it would need to be explained why Baltimore, in a state with draconian gun laws, has a homicide rate 5 times higher than Phoenix, in a state with nearly no gun laws. Basically, it isn't guns or gun ownership rates that determine homicide rate. It's something else or, likely, a combination of many things. Blaming homicide rates on guns is simply lazy and leads to laws which restrict the right of law abiding citizens while doing little to impact people inclined toward criminal activity anyway and/or crazy people.

Oh look, the NRA rode into town.

To be honest I lack the inclination to argue this with any American gun advocate. By the very fact of being an American gun advocate you’re intentionally blind to the phenomenon of regular mass civilian shooting, a phenomenon that is almost uniquely American in the developed world. Intentional blindness is something an Internet discussion isn’t going to cure.

I will simply observe that local variations in gun law in the USA are, as far as I can see, irrelevant to the argument - if not a deliberate red herring - because there are no internal borders in the USA preventing guns being bought in one place and used in another. Thus any attempt to draw false comparisons between one city’s murder rate and its gun laws, and that of another, is a bit of a waste of time. But then, as I said, the whole debate is a bit of a waste of time. Far too many Americans seem to see the occasional mass slaughter of their fellow citizens as an acceptable price of freedom.

You have a collective sickness of the soul.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Hom3r

We should ban any NRA or pro-NRA from entering the UK.

I would go as far as treating it as a terrorist organisation.

Not every one in the UK is anti-gun .

[denphone]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Not every one in the UK is anti-gun .

No l don't doubt that but tell me what is justifiable about 25% of the American population owning guns? as in a decent civilised society the bullshit about the rights of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed is a load of hogwash..

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by denphone

No l don't doubt that but tell me what is justifiable about 25% of the American population owning guns? as in a decent civilised society the bullshit about the rights of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed is a load of hogwash..

Your asking me to justify the constitution of the USA, that's a subject best left to the people of the USA. If they didn't want guns there would be no guns , the fact that there are so many indicates they want gun ownership to continue .

[Chloé Palmas]

Originally Posted by Hom3r

We should ban any NRA or pro-NRA from entering the UK.

I am a UK citizen and pro gun, too.

You have a thing / fetish for trying to bar Brits from living in their own country, don't you?

(Oh, and yes btw...I used to be a gun owner and I may become one again yet).

Ironically Democratic Presidents are better for the gun industry because the sales go up as gun lovers worry that restrictions will be put in place.