Britain outside the EU

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

M&S announced the closure of eleven stores in France, nothing to do with covid

Correct. It is due to EU interpretation pedantry.

The sandwich fiasco that seph refers to, nothing to do with covid

Correct. It is due to EU interpretation pedantry.

Reintroduction of roaming fees, nothing to do with covid

Correct, but we could legislate to prevent this from happening if all operators decided to go down that route.

Collapse in exports of shellfish, nothing to do with covid

Correct. It is due to EU intransigence and sheer obstinacy.

Well, since 3 out of the 4 Operators have decided to go down that route, here’s hoping "legislation" occurs (but please feel free to hold your breath while waiting for it..).

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

M&S announced the closure of eleven stores in France, nothing to do with covid

Correct. It is due to EU interpretation pedantry.

The sandwich fiasco that seph refers to, nothing to do with covid

Correct. It is due to EU interpretation pedantry.

Reintroduction of roaming fees, nothing to do with covid

Correct, but we could legislate to prevent this from happening if all operators decided to go down that route.

Collapse in exports of shellfish, nothing to do with covid

Correct. It is due to EU intransigence and sheer obstinacy.

Perhaps if we had had a competent negotiating team the so called ‘interpretation pedantry’ wouldn’t have been an issue ?

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Perhaps if we had had a competent negotiating team the so called ‘interpretation pedantry’ wouldn’t have been an issue ?

Assuming there had been a "competent negotiating team" do you think that the EU would have settled for anything more favourable to the UK than was negotiated?

What do you think a "competent negotiating team" could have achieved that would have been better for the UK?

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Assuming there had been a "competent negotiating team" do you think that the EU would have settled for anything more favourable to the UK than was negotiated?

What do you think a "competent negotiating team" could have achieved that would have been better for the UK?

So, and if I understand you correctly, you’re saying that regardless of who we had negotiating on behalf of the U.K. we would have always come up short against the EU ?

Wasn’t there always the option of no deal which Boris had both the majority and the mandate for following the landslide Tory election victory ?

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

So, and if I understand you correctly, you’re saying that regardless of who we had negotiating on behalf of the U.K. we would have always come up short against the EU ?

Wasn’t there always the option of no deal which Boris had both the majority and the mandate for following the landslide Tory election victory ?

You understood me correctly.

And I've consistently said that Boris should have not sealed a deal. We should just have dropped out of the EU.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

You understood me correctly.

And I've consistently said that Boris should have not sealed a deal. We should just have dropped out of the EU.

You have indeed, which begs the question, why are you so angry at the EU for the U.K. governments shortcomings/failures ?

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Perhaps if we had had a competent negotiating team the so called ‘interpretation pedantry’ wouldn’t have been an issue ?

Or maybe a reasonable man’s interpretation of the agreement is different from that of the EU.

I can’t believe that you continue to defend these people against our own interests.

---------- Post added at 23:34 ---------- Previous post was at 23:32 ----------

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

So, and if I understand you correctly, you’re saying that regardless of who we had negotiating on behalf of the U.K. we would have always come up short against the EU ?

Wasn’t there always the option of no deal which Boris had both the majority and the mandate for following the landslide Tory election victory ?

What’s happened to your memory? There was opposition to the idea of a ‘no deal’. Have you forgotten that?

---------- Post added at 23:35 ---------- Previous post was at 23:34 ----------

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

You have indeed, which begs the question, why are you so angry at the EU for the U.K. governments shortcomings/failures ?

I blame the remainers. They did their absolute best to kill Brexit. What they did achieve was an imperfect Brexit deal.

This will not stand. Watch this space.

"Our interests" are to be seen as a trustworthy partner in any future treaties we sign, not as a country who sign up to something for brief internal political gains, then almost immediately reneg on it.

A "reasonable person" tries to understand both sides of an argument, and then tries to propose a way forward, rather than constantly bleating about unfair it is that people expect you to live up to the agreements you signed…

I blame the remainers

Course you do - unfortunately for you, reality does not reflect your thinking - neither Frost (who negotiated the agreement) or Johnson (who drove it through) are Remainers.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Or maybe a reasonable man’s interpretation of the agreement is different from that of the EU.

I can’t believe that you continue to defend these people against our own interests.

---------- Post added at 23:34 ---------- Previous post was at 23:32 ----------



What’s happened to your memory? There was opposition to the idea of a ‘no deal’. Have you forgotten that?

---------- Post added at 23:35 ---------- Previous post was at 23:34 ----------



I blame the remainers. They did their absolute best to kill Brexit. What they did achieve was an imperfect Brexit deal.

This will not stand. Watch this space.

OB I think your memory does you a disservice.

At the tories landslide election they campaigned on no deal was better than a bad deal, they subsequently won by a landslide. They had the numbers to force no deal through but chose not too.

In terms of the challenges that we’re currently facing from Brexit, all roads lead to Rome as to who is culpable for that.

1. The failure of U.K. negotiators as highlighted by seph
2. The failure of Boris to take the U.K. out on no deal when he had the numbers (this is if you believe no deal was ever a viable option)
3. The failure of those Brexiteers when considering points 1 & 2 above to think for some reason that the EU should ‘throw us a bone’ in terms of renegotiating.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

OB I think your memory does you a disservice.

I think this is the crux of the matter.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Perhaps if we had had a competent negotiating team the so called ‘interpretation pedantry’ wouldn’t have been an issue ?

The interpretation has happened subsequent to the agreement. I think the fault on our side was that once an agreement was made, both sides would rely on good faith.

Clearly, that’s not possible with the EU. I would never trust those charlatans again. Ever.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The interpretation has happened subsequent to the agreement. I think the fault on our side was that once an agreement was made, both sides would rely on good faith.

Clearly, that’s not possible with the EU. I would never trust those charlatans again. Ever.

Again, after the election Boris had the numbers to take us out on no deal, why didn’t he ?

[Carth]

My memory must be as bad as OB's then, as I remember a fair few Parliamentary personnel loudly slagging off the 'no deal' option

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Carth

My memory must be as bad as OB's then, as I remember a fair few Parliamentary personnel loudly slagging off the 'no deal' option

That would have been prior to the election. I’ll grant you there were still those decrying no deal afterwards but Boris had the numbers to force it through

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Hugh

"Our interests" are to be seen as a trustworthy partner in any future treaties we sign, not as a country who sign up to something for brief internal political gains, then almost immediately reneg on it.

A "reasonable person" tries to understand both sides of an argument, and then tries to propose a way forward, rather than constantly bleating about unfair it is that people expect you to live up to the agreements you signed…

We reneged because the EU has made an absurd interpretation on a signed document.

The EU interpreted it in a way that no reasonable party to an agreement would.

Once again, batting for the other side.

Incidentally, when has the EU ever fitted your ‘reasonable person’ definition?