Britain outside the EU

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

You are right to say that WTO membership requires a hard border, but Seph is right when he says that this could be on paper only. The EU was given options on how to regulate goods going in and out through the use of technology, but the EU was not playing ball.

Boris accepted a bad deal rather than a no deal because firstly it got Brexit done without too much more aggro, but he also decided that any problems arising could be dealt with after the event, when we would be in a position of strength.

This is only just starting to play out, but I can see him making the argument in the not too distant future that we will give the EU notice of termination, and he will explain that the existing deal was not working. Without the nonsense of having a hung parliament and with the advantage of having left the EU, plus the prospect of this unfolding chaos of EU malice under this bad deal, he will get more of the public on side.

Hang on, it wasn't a hung parliament when Boris was elected. He could of quite easily taken us out on no deal. So the question i asked last night to Sephi, I'll ask to you. Why did Boris not take us out on no deal?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Hang on, it wasn't a hung parliament when Boris was elected. He could of quite easily taken us out on no deal. So the question i asked last night to Sephi, I'll ask to you. Why did Boris not take us out on no deal?

I'm afraid that some are so beholden to the hung Parliament myth that they overlook the fact that Boris could have taken us out without a deal. In the rest of the negotiations, they lean heavily into the "EU wouldn't allow us" line as a get-out clause but that's simply not possible with this question!

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I'm afraid that some are so beholden to the hung Parliament myth that they overlook the fact that Boris could have taken us out without a deal. In the rest of the negotiations, they lean heavily into the "EU wouldn't allow us" line as a get-out clause but that's simply not possible with this question!

Tis a wonder with that we possess so many armchair politicians on CF who are able to raise complex political arguments but seem to fall short at providing an answer to two very simple questions.

A wonder indeed.......

[Carth]

Could Boris just have picked up the phone, rang that Barnier chap and said

"Right I've had enough, no more games, I'm buggering off, bye" ?

or would it have had to be agreed by everyone who had a say in it . . including those who were totally against a no deal

Plenty of people were willing to scupper any kind of deal using delaying tactics.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Carth

Could Boris just have picked up the phone, rang that Barnier chap and said

"Right I've had enough, no more games, I'm buggering off, bye" ?

or would it have had to be agreed by everyone who had a say in it . . including those who were totally against a no deal

Plenty of people were willing to scupper any kind of deal using delaying tactics.

Nope, Boris had the ability & the numbers when the Tories took their landslide election victory to take us out on no deal.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Nope, Boris had the ability & the numbers when the Tories took their landslide election victory to take us out on no deal.

It's somewhat perplexing that those professing a need for greater sovereignty don't understand the difference between a hung Parliament and a Parliament with an 80-seat majority.

---------- Post added at 13:20 ---------- Previous post was at 13:06 ----------

i think this thoughtful article neatly summarises where the country is at on Brexit.

Happily for the Tories, there is no pressure from the opposition. Keir Starmer wants to woo back voters who abandoned his party because they felt it had stopped listening to them on the whole suite of issues relating to the referendum, from immigration control to the democratic principle of honouring the result once the votes had been counted. That relationship will not be fixed with lectures on the enduring folly of Brexit. Labour sees no route back to power treading the European side in arguments that Johnson can frame in terms of national dignity.

British politics still has remainers and leavers, but those labels tend to describe emotional attachments, not policy prescriptions. Pro-Europeans are not interested in fixing Johnson’s deal, which they see as irredeemable; and leavers cannot concede that their fundamental premise was flawed. Neither side is yet ready to work with the banal reality that Brexit is an unspectacular failure: neither triumph, nor apocalypse. It is the damp smell in British politics that can be endured, but not quite ignored. The longer it is left untreated, the more expensive it will be to fix.

But there is no realistic conversation about the relationship Britain should have with the rest of Europe, if not the one it has now; and the relationship it has now is the product of avoiding realistic debate for decades. As a result, the government – and perversely the opposition too – is committed to the task of finding a purpose in something that will keep proving itself pointless.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...elves-empty-eu

[Carth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

It's somewhat perplexing that those professing a need for greater sovereignty don't understand the difference between a hung Parliament and a Parliament with an 80-seat majority

Was that an 80 seat majority for Tory rule, or an 80 seat majority for 'no deal'?

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

I see

Therefore, as we continue meandering down this never ending discussion of politics Can we safely say you won’t be blaming May anymore as per your earlier post? Quite odd really, May has more balls than Boris, at least she was prepared to do what she believed in. Unless of course Boris didn’t believe in no deal all along ???

I’ll bid you good night and say thank you for a pleasant discussion, no doubt the shenanigans will continue tomorrow

You really aren't paying attention, MrM.

May is blamed for the Withdrawal Agreement which included the NI Protocol.
Boris is blamed for not having the balls to unpick/undo this one way or another.

As for shenanigans, they are not of my making.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Carth

Was that an 80 seat majority for Tory rule, or an 80 seat majority for 'no deal'?

Mon dieu... the desperation.....

[Carth]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Mon dieu... the desperation.....

ahh, another that doesn't understand . . . ever considered lorry driving?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Carth

Was that an 80 seat majority for Tory rule, or an 80 seat majority for 'no deal'?

We elect parties not 'no deals' in the UK.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Carth

ahh, another that doesn't understand . . . ever considered lorry driving?

I couldn’t take the pay cut

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

We elect parties not 'no deals' in the UK.

Please forgive me, but you've just made a totally irrelevant statement. The sentence makes no sense.

[Carth]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Please forgive me, but you've just made a totally irrelevant statement. The sentence makes no sense.

No I think he's right. What does an '80 seat majority' mean . . ?

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

You really aren't paying attention, MrM.

May is blamed for the Withdrawal Agreement which included the NI Protocol.
Boris is blamed for not having the balls to unpick/undo this one way or another.

As for shenanigans, they are not of my making.

And good afternoon to you too

Any withdrawal agreement had to contain provisions to protect the peace in Northern Ireland that is a simple fact.

Boris knew what no deal meant, for all his gibberish & lunacy he’s not stupid.

Shenanigans are fun