General : Changes to Virgin TV (2021)

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I cannot see subscribers being prepared to pay for the small number of pay tv channels that will be left if the current trend of diverting content to streamers and closing down channels continues apace, can you?

Ignoring your big "if" statements, why would viewers not stay (and same applies to Sky)?

You're making the assumption that Sky or Virgin cannot deliver value and that only streamers can based on nothing at all. These bundles of streaming services end up more expensive than the vast majority are paying in triple play/quad play bundles with Sky or Virgin. Plus you ignore the fact that general entertainment doesn't draw in numbers the same way as exclusive live sports.

Viewers stayed with Virgin throughout the Sky basics dispute. There's nothing to indicate minority interest content is more damaging than that and not readily replaceable.

[cheekyangus]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

That’s why I said it would be interesting. A way will need to be found of monetising the new TV environment that is emerging, otherwise the TV side of Virgin’s business will no longer be profitable.

Perhaps they should buy ITV and take some income that way!

OB I wasn't addressing your post. I hadn't seen it. My post was so long and took so long to compose that your post didn't appear until after I pressed to post mine.

[heavyside]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

That looks like the IPTV service for BB only customers that's being trialled.

Whether this is an attempt to upsell TV to BB only customers or if they are testing the water to see if they can eventually get rid of traditional TV and provide phone & TV via a BB only service remains to be seen.

I can't imagine that if Virgin Media succeeds in negotiating a comprehensive 'all in' bundle with streamers that it will only be offered to broadband subscribers.

[RichardCoulter]

I hope not.

[BenMcr]

Virgin TV 360 requires Virgin Fibre, so the customer base for any IP only TV wouldn't be much different from the current TV service, so I'd hope that any content agreements are roughly similar.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Virgin TV 360 requires Virgin Fibre, so the customer base for any IP only TV wouldn't be much different from the current TV service, so I'd hope that any content agreements are roughly similar.

Do you know if sending the TV service via IPTV uses less bandwidth than the current way? If so, VM could reassign the TV allocation to BB to increase their capacity for it.

[BenMcr]

Even it did, it wouldn't happen anytime soon.

There are literally millions of co-ax connected Virgin TV STBs installed in the UK.

[Media Boy UK]

Originally Posted by Media Boy

New Channels set to launch on Virgin Media UK in June.

June 8th: Colors Gujurati will launch on Virgin UK Channel 825.
June 27th: BBC Red Button HD will launch on Virgin UK Channel 990*.
June 27th: BBC Red Button 2 will launch on Virgin UK Channel 992*.
June 27th: BBC Red Button 3 will launch on Virgin UK Channel 993*.
June 27th: BBC Red Button 4 will launch on Virgin UK Channel 994*.
June 27th: BBC Red Button 5 will launch on Virgin UK Channel 995*.
June 27th: BBC Red Button 6 will launch on Virgin UK Channel 996*.

*BBC Red Button Channels numbers still to be confirmed at time of posting.

July 12th: BBC Red Button HD will close on Virgin UK Channel 990*.
July 12th: BBC Red Button 2 will close on Virgin UK Channel 992*.
July 12th: BBC Red Button 3 will close on Virgin UK Channel 993*.
July 12th: BBC Red Button 4 will close on Virgin UK Channel 994*.
July 12th: BBC Red Button 5 will close on Virgin UK Channel 995*.
July 12th: BBC Red Button 6 will close on Virgin UK Channel 996*.

*BBC Red Button Channels numbers still to be confirmed at time of posting.

UPDATE:

Look like when BBC Red Button HD Channel when it launches by Friday will be an UK wide 24 hour channel (and not CBBC HD stream as years before) base on Digital Bit Rate info. https://www.digitalbitrate.com/dtv.p...&sec=0&lang=en

Also TiVo listing has been updated for the FOX Channels to now say that both FOX and FOX HD will close at Midnight on Jume 30th.

FOX +1 will now close at 1am on June 30th (early July 1st).

[RichardCoulter]

Looks like the Discovery channels are being removed from Now TV:

https://community.nowtv.com/t5/Enter...el/td-p/561462

I wonder if Sky & VM will be losing them when the carriage contracts expire? Anybody know when this is?

It may just be that they want their channels off another streaming service competing for customers, but the long term plan is for Discovery to retain just one linear channel to showcase their online content. No idea if this includes their ad reliant FTA channels.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

Ignoring your big "if" statements, why would viewers not stay (and same applies to Sky)?

You're making the assumption that Sky or Virgin cannot deliver value and that only streamers can based on nothing at all. These bundles of streaming services end up more expensive than the vast majority are paying in triple play/quad play bundles with Sky or Virgin. Plus you ignore the fact that general entertainment doesn't draw in numbers the same way as exclusive live sports.

Viewers stayed with Virgin throughout the Sky basics dispute. There's nothing to indicate minority interest content is more damaging than that and not readily replaceable.

I'm not sure you are joining the dots. If the number of pay-tv channels reduced substantially due to the DTC trend, would you be prepared to pay the same as now for what was left?

The only way I can see of VM being able to compensate is to offer all the streamers and integrate them as much as possible to the VM system, allowing customers easier access to what they want to see.

So if, yes if, there was a substantial reduction of TV channels, in line with the new developing trend, what do you think would happen?

---------- Post added at 16:54 ---------- Previous post was at 16:52 ----------

Originally Posted by cheekyangus

OB I wasn't addressing your post. I hadn't seen it. My post was so long and took so long to compose that your post didn't appear until after I pressed to post mine.

No worries, cheekyangus. Your points were perfectly valid.

---------- Post added at 16:59 ---------- Previous post was at 16:54 ----------

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Looks like the Discovery channels are being removed from Now TV:

https://community.nowtv.com/t5/Enter...el/td-p/561462

I wonder if Sky & VM will be losing them when the carriage contracts expire? Anybody know when this is?

It may just be that they want their channels off another streaming service competing for customers, but the long term plan is for Discovery to retain just one linear channel to showcase their online content. No idea if this includes their ad reliant FTA channels.

The loss of channels is accelerating, it seems. I believe I read that Discovery stated that they would still have a linear presence in the future. It will be interesting to see what form that takes. We could end up with simply a Discovery showcase channel.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I'm not sure you are joining the dots. If the number of pay-tv channels reduced substantially due to the DTC trend, would you be prepared to pay the same as now for what was left?

That would depend on what (if any) alternative content is made available and what the alternative product mix is in the marketplace at similar price point.

The average consumer doesn’t have unlimited disposable income, and has a massive range of competing interests.

Is anyone else offering BT Sport for example - Sky it’s £25 a month. On BT it’s £15 a month. My marginal cost of Maxit above a standalone broadband package is less than this and nobody else can match Virgin’s speeds in my area.

The only way I can see of VM being able to compensate is to offer all the streamers and integrate them as much as possible to the VM system, allowing customers easier access to what they want to see.

So if, yes if, there was a substantial reduction of TV channels, in line with the new developing trend, what do you think would happen?

Ultimately costs are being driven up for end users across the board making a less attractive Sky/Virgin offering paradoxically more attractive relative to the rest of the market. Far from the new “low cost” future previously prophesied we are being asked to spend £5 here and £10 there for largely interchangeable minority interest “General Entertainment”.

The savings aren’t there for Virgin to significantly reduce the costs their service so likely they’ll just keep increasing the cost of broadband - ultimately for many users they don’t have a choice of a competing FTTP offering.

For Sky they can do the same on the basis of their exclusive content - in particular sports.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

That would depend on what (if any) alternative content is made available and what the alternative product mix is in the marketplace at similar price point.

The average consumer doesn’t have unlimited disposable income, and has a massive range of competing interests.

Is anyone else offering BT Sport for example - Sky it’s £25 a month. On BT it’s £15 a month. My marginal cost of Maxit above a standalone broadband package is less than this and nobody else can match Virgin’s speeds in my area.

.

Well, that doesn’t really help, jfman. Where is this alternative content of which you speak? The only half-decent channel we don’t have now is Sky Atlantic. And even that channel won’t have HBO content for much longer. I can’t see that contract being renewed soon, can you?

Sky is now in the fortunate position of having been taken over by Comcast, which will certainly help them. Maybe Liberty Global should think about taking over one of these American content providers and also to start commissioning original content of its own to help fill the gap.

Not many of us have unlimited disposable income, I agree, and they certainly wouldn’t want to waste it by paying out for fewer, lower quality channels.

---------- Post added at 19:27 ---------- Previous post was at 19:17 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

Ultimately costs are being driven up for end users across the board making a less attractive Sky/Virgin offering paradoxically more attractive relative to the rest of the market. Far from the new “low cost” future previously prophesied we are being asked to spend £5 here and £10 there for largely interchangeable minority interest “General Entertainment”.

The savings aren’t there for Virgin to significantly reduce the costs their service so likely they’ll just keep increasing the cost of broadband - ultimately for many users they don’t have a choice of a competing FTTP offering.

For Sky they can do the same on the basis of their exclusive content - in particular sports.

There are many Virgin subscribers who are not fussed at all about sport, so I’d hardly call general entertainment a minority interest.

I stick by my previous assertions that the streamers are much better value for money for non-sports content. The streamers are not requiring you to enter into a contract lasting more than a month, and so you can swap between them if money is a problem. You don’t need to subscribe to them all at once. And the quality and volume of content is far better than any TV channel can offer, or even all of them put together.

I agree that if you are a generalist sports watcher, streaming can be very expensive, but those who are interested in only one sport (eg football) can find savings by not subscribing off-season.

[RichardCoulter]

Apparently, those who call to cancel off season are immediately offered a good retention deal over the summer.

Worth doing even if those into football have no intention of cancelling to help keep down the expensive cost of sport.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Well, that doesn’t really help, jfman. Where is this alternative content of which you speak? The only half-decent channel we don’t have now is Sky Atlantic. And even that channel won’t have HBO content for much longer. I can’t see that contract being renewed soon, can you?

There’s plenty English language television OB.

Discovery don’t have a monopoly on documentaries, Disney don’t have a monopoly on cartoons or regurgitated comic book fantasy films. General entertainment is ten a penny from a range of potential content providers on both sides of the pond.

Sky is now in the fortunate position of having been taken over by Comcast, which will certainly help them. Maybe Liberty Global should think about taking over one of these American content providers and also to start commissioning original content of its own to help fill the gap.

Or they could just buy content from Sky?

Not many of us have unlimited disposable income, I agree, and they certainly wouldn’t want to waste it by paying out for fewer, lower quality channels.

I couldn’t have put it better myself - why would anyone want to pigeon hole the content they see to that of one or two streaming services at £5/10 a month when you can get the depth and breadth of content from Sky or Virgin.

There are many Virgin subscribers who are not fussed at all about sport, so I’d hardly call general entertainment a minority interest.

Minority interest channels scoring 0.1-1.0 are everywhere on the BARB ratings getting pennies in the pound wholesale. They all sound pretty interchangeable to me. Discovery Shed? Or will I just YouTube some DIY videos for half an hour to waste my day away?

I stick by my previous assertions that the streamers are much better value for money for non-sports content. The streamers are not requiring you to enter into a contract lasting more than a month, and so you can swap between them if money is a problem. You don’t need to subscribe to them all at once. And the quality and volume of content is far better than any TV channel can offer, or even all of them put together.

I agree that if you are a generalist sports watcher, streaming can be very expensive, but those who are interested in only one sport (eg football) can find savings by not subscribing off-season.

Streamers may be better value in a narrow subset of circumstances. However for the vast majority of “general entertainment” viewers they are simply spreading out the content and driving up costs.

Very few sports fans are interested in “one sport” and one only.

[cheekyangus]

Two BBC apps for TVs have had features added.

BBC Sounds (TV App) now has a Podcasts section. The last addition was a Music section. When it the TV App launched it was Home/My Sounds/Search/Settings to my recollection.

BBC iPlayer (TV App) now has restored a feature lost in the last big refresh. The have re-added a written description of the programme/episode. There's a little "Info" label underneath the progress bar with a "V" downward arrow symbol, which indicates that if you press the down arrow on your remote control it will show the description. Interestingly the description seems to stay on screen until you actively press a button to get rid of it. Up and down buttons on the remote do this, that I've tried, maybe other buttons have the same effect.

Note: These changes have been found on the Virgin Media V6 box versions of the TV Apps, I don't know if the features have been rolled out to all VM households (I received the update early previously) or other TV App platforms.