Coronavirus - Page 57

**Damien** · 10-11-2020, 11:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking

They work by giving the immune system a "heads-up" to what it might face in the future. It still takes time for the immune system to build an immunity. It DOESN'T directly and immediately destroy the virus.

Yes but when they do that they manipulate the virus to ensure it can't replicate otherwise you could kill people by giving them the flu.

---------- Post added at 11:11 ---------- Previous post was at 11:08 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking

Where did I say that?
Just because you have been given the vaccine, doesn't give you instant immunity from the real one still out there. You would still have to self-isolate/shield from that real version that is still out there, whilst your immune system can build an immunity to the fake version that also works on the real version. You would still be vulnerable from getting the real version and it developing to the infectious stage.

oh sorry I misread your post as saying people would have to isolate because they could spread it.

**Chris** · 10-11-2020, 11:11

The essential difference between a vaccination and an antiviral drug is that the former stimulates the immune system, while the latter directly attacks the virus, normall by inhibiting its reproduction (although some can act to actively destroy the virus).

nomadking · 10-11-2020, 11:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

Yes but when they do that they manipulate the virus to ensure it can't replicate otherwise you could kill people by giving them the flu.

---------- Post added at 11:11 ---------- Previous post was at 11:08 ----------
oh sorry I misread your post as saying people would have to isolate because they could spread it.

It DOESN'T give you immediate protection from the real thing. You could STILL pick that up around the time of vaccination or even afterwards.
You will NOT be able to get the vaccine and then immediately go out and about as if there was no problem at all. Even once the immune system is all prepared for the real thing, it STILL takes time for the immune system to deal with it, although it is quicker in doing it.

In some ways the priorities might be the wrong way around. Vaccinate those most like to spread it around, eg the young, keep them in lockdown for a further 2 weeks. It then should be safer out there for the rest of us to go out and be vaccinated. Having the young face a further 4 weeks in lockdown even with a vaccine, isn't going to work.

downquark1 · 10-11-2020, 11:36

Damien needs to rephrase what he is saying. I'm confused.

**Damien** · 10-11-2020, 11:49

I misread the post as saying that people who had the vaccine would still need to self-isolate in case they spread it. He actually said because they could still get it.

nomadking · 10-11-2020, 12:08

The vaccine would represent the fake version of the virus, the real full version is still out there. You could still get both versions at the same time. You could still be affected by the full version, before any immunity from the fake version kicks in. That would include getting to the infectious stage of the real version, and spreading that real version around.

Lockdown would have to continue for a few weeks, even after vaccinations started.

**Maggy** · 10-11-2020, 12:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking

It DOESN'T give you immediate protection from the real thing. You could STILL pick that up around the time of vaccination or even afterwards.
You will NOT be able to get the vaccine and then immediately go out and about as if there was no problem at all. Even once the immune system is all prepared for the real thing, it STILL takes time for the immune system to deal with it, although it is quicker in doing it.

In some ways the priorities might be the wrong way around. Vaccinate those most like to spread it around, eg the young, keep them in lockdown for a further 2 weeks. It then should be safer out there for the rest of us to go out and be vaccinated. Having the young face a further 4 weeks in lockdown even with a vaccine, isn't going to work.

Seriously?

downquark1 · 10-11-2020, 12:24

The old and vulnerable are a smaller group of people so will be easier to systematically vaccinate, although there will be a risk when they go to hospital for it.

nomadking · 10-11-2020, 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy

Seriously?

Not sure which of the 3 paragraphs you're referring to.
My priority order question is based upon who is most likely to spread it, and who is most likely to be able to tolerate the continuing lockdown.
Link

Quote:

UK Health Secretary Matt Hancock says he is optimistic life will return to normal by spring after promising vaccine results.

That's 5/6 months away.

The shielding and vulnerable groups run into millions. They are not small groups.

1andrew1 · 10-11-2020, 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking

The shielding and vulnerable groups run into millions. They are not small groups.

Yes, about 10m people is the figure I've heard. Another reason why natural herd immunity would not work.

**Damien** · 10-11-2020, 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by downquark1

The old and vulnerable are a smaller group of people so will be easier to systematically vaccinate, although there will be a risk when they go to hospital for it.

Also they can't run as fast if we need to chase them with the vaccine.

**Paul** · 10-11-2020, 15:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbxx

By far the most secure was Moorfields Eye Hospital childrens unit where you had to resanitise and get a new mask to be allowed walk in the door with security enforcing this.

I had to go to our local EENT last week (Nottingham QMC) for an eye test, they did the same thing.
I asked them why I had to change mask and they said ive come from outside, it might be "contaminated".

What about the rest of me ?
My shoes, trousers, coat, hair, etc, they are all "contaminated" as well.
Worrying about one small patch of material on my face seems a little strange.

BenMcr · 10-11-2020, 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul

Worrying about one small patch of material on my face seems a little strange.

I suppose it would be that you don't breath through those other materials.

Contamination on the mask I guess could have a higher risk of being put into the air, and it's likely to be directed at someone else more than your clothes would be via contact transmission.

Stuart · 10-11-2020, 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul

I had to go to our local EENT last week (Nottingham QMC) for an eye test, they did the same thing.
I asked them why I had to change mask and they said ive come from outside, it might be "contaminated".

What about the rest of me ?
My shoes, trousers, coat, hair, etc, they are all "contaminated" as well.
Worrying about one small patch of material on my face seems a little strange.

My understanding is that the primary use of the masks is to stop those who are infectious from breathing virus particles out (they would probably be caught by a decent mask), although they do apparently help reduce the amount of particles you breath in from other people.

Maybe they are asking people to change masks because they need to reduce the chances of their own staff being infected? That said, the chances are, if you are at an ENT appointment, they are probably going to need you to remove any face coverings anyway.

**Hugh** · 10-11-2020, 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul

I had to go to our local EENT last week (Nottingham QMC) for an eye test, they did the same thing.
I asked them why I had to change mask and they said ive come from outside, it might be "contaminated".

What about the rest of me ?
My shoes, trousers, coat, hair, etc, they are all "contaminated" as well.
Worrying about one small patch of material on my face seems a little strange.

It might be because a lot of people are using the same mask multiple times without washing it, so they don’t know how long someone has had a mask on - giving people a new mask when they enter minimises that particular challenge.