Coronavirus

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Hugh

I don’t see the issue - if someone wishes to wear a mask (because they believe they could be reducing a risk to others), what’s the problem?

They’re not making you wear one…

Well, when you consider the type of masks the public buy in great numbers, and you consider the materials used and the importance of having a well-fitting mask if it's to do much good, I think we are fooling ourselves if we really believe that this is an effective means of preventing infection.

In the height of the mask-wearing phase when it was a requirement to wear masks in public places, we'd see people wearing these standard masks that were clearly not tight on the face, and a countless number of people with the mask under the nose. No-one ever seemed to challenge anyone about this.

I still believe that the change of government advice in favour of mask-wearing was simply PR, designed to get people who had been scared to death by the medical rhetoric out of their homes.

It is untrue to say no-one is making us wear them. In too many situations, it is still a requirement (GP surgeries, hospitals, chemists, aeroplanes, etc.).

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0245688

[Jaymoss]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

It is untrue to say no-one is making us wear them. In too many situations, it is still a requirement (GP surgeries, hospitals, chemists, aeroplanes, etc.).

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0245688

I most definitely do not think it is too many

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Well, when you consider the type of masks the public buy in great numbers, and you consider the materials used and the importance of having a well-fitting mask if it's to do much good, I think we are fooling ourselves if we really believe that this is an effective means of preventing infection.

In the height of the mask-wearing phase when it was a requirement to wear masks in public places, we'd see people wearing these standard masks that were clearly not tight on the face, and a countless number of people with the mask under the nose. No-one ever seemed to challenge anyone about this.

I still believe that the change of government advice in favour of mask-wearing was simply PR, designed to get people who had been scared to death by the medical rhetoric out of their homes.

It is untrue to say no-one is making us wear them. In too many situations, it is still a requirement (GP surgeries, hospitals, chemists, aeroplanes, etc.).

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0245688

I was referring to the person wearing the mask - sorry if that wasn’t clear.

Originally Posted by Hugh

I don’t see the issue - if someone wishes to wear a mask (because they believe they could be reducing a risk to others), what’s the problem?

They’re not making you wear one…

Some people seem to have objections to others wearing masks.

It’s interesting that you don’t think people should wear masks to GP surgeries& hospitals, where it’s likely that the people there would be vulnerable - can I ask why you think that?

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Pierre

I’m getting on one on Tuesday, to go to Tenerife and there is no requirement to wear a mask.

I’m in Vienna where an FFP2 mask is required and Covid passes are mandatory to get into a restaurant.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Hugh

I was referring to the person wearing the mask - sorry if that wasn’t clear.



Some people seem to have objections to others wearing masks.

It’s interesting that you don’t think people should wear masks to GP surgeries& hospitals, where it’s likely that the people there would be vulnerable - can I ask why you think that?

My point is that the masks that most people wear, and the way they wear them, makes them largely ineffective.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I’m in Vienna where an FFP2 mask is required and Covid passes are mandatory to get into a restaurant.

That's handy for getting your grub into your mouth.

[spiderplant]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Well, when you consider the type of masks the public buy in great numbers, and you consider the materials used and the importance of having a well-fitting mask if it's to do much good, I think we are fooling ourselves if we really believe that this is an effective means of preventing infection.

Cheap/home made masks actually work surprisingly well. Basically anything in front of your mouth & nose will catch droplets.

"cloth and surgical masks were not significantly different"

https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance...iab797/6370149

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

My point is that the masks that most people wear, and the way they wear them, makes them largely ineffective.

You are putting your own interpretation onto the findings - nothing in that research stated that masks were ineffective, largely or otherwise; it states they could be "less effective" if not fitted properly.

Two different things.

The study showed that surgical & fabric masks kept between 65-80% of particles outside the mask - that is not "largely ineffective".



Anyway, instead of a study that involved 7 people, how about one that involved 350,000 people?

https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-ne...-covid-19.html

Styczynski and her colleagues recently performed a study across 600 villages in Bangladesh where they provided surgical masks to some of the villages and cloth masks to others.

”When considering both types of masks together, we found a significant reduction in Covid-19. When we looked at each of the mask types separately, we found that surgical masks were especially effective in reducing Covid-19, though there was more uncertainty for cloth masks,” she says. “It may be that we didn't see an effect of cloth masks on Covid-19 because fewer people were given cloths masks. However, both cloth and surgical masks significantly reduced Covid-like symptoms, suggesting that cloth masks offer some protection.”

[nffc]

Originally Posted by Paul

What exactly do you fear ?

Its been largely maskless for 2.5 months, and the world didnt end.

If people want to wear one, fine, go for it, as long as they stop being preachy a-holes trying to tell everyone else they 'need' to.

The point a lot of them probably miss is that in most places it is now simply a recommendation to do it if it's crowded.


Although I still think it's a legal requirement on TfL services, and in hospitals and medical practices (which makes sense as there are sick people there) in most places you're neither legally compelled to nor is it enforceable, though I suppose a place could in principle refuse entry to someone who isn't if they want to make it a condition of entry.


In any case, even when it was backed up with a legal instrument, there were still exemptions, and there was no requirement to have your exemption officially certified by a doctor, literally you could not wear one, and they weren't really supposed to challenge someone who wasn't, this was actually explicitly against the law, some form of disability discrimination as well to bar people because they weren't, there are plenty of examples where people have unlawfully challenged someone for not wearing a face covering because they are exempt. And not all disabilities are visible, for example, it can be if it causes you distress, which could be if you were assaulted and someone grabbed you over the face to stop you crying out for help...


I do think some of it was a visual cue or even a confidence booster, we did get rid of covid in March-July 2020 to levels much lower than now, and get most of the economy open albeit with social distancing in pubs etc, before it was mandatory to wear masks basically in indoor areas. Whilst some of it makes sense, for example if you're close to a lot of people for a long time period, in something like a supermarket where you're not in close contact with anyone for any sustained period, it doesn't. And the way they ended up in pubs where you had table service anyway, had to wear one going in and out and when going into the toilet, but not when you were sat at your table (and presumably in a toilet, though no-one's going to bang down the door and check you're wearing one there) is a bit silly because the virus is still out there, they may as well not bother and say you don't need to for the amount of time you're wearing one.


Plus a lot of people forget they don't really protect the wearer but others, which presumably only applies if you have covid (or anything else like a cold) and don't realise it.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

That's handy for getting your grub into your mouth.

Nothing gets between the Back Haendl and my mouth.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

It is untrue to say no-one is making us wear them. In too many situations, it is still a requirement (GP surgeries, hospitals, chemists, aeroplanes, etc.).

Well I havent been to hospital recently (or on an aeroplane ) but for the record, in the last 2/3 weeks Ive been to the chemist/pharmacy at least twice, the doctors, and the dentist, and not been forced to wear one in any of them. I dont actually have one any more, I binned all the ones I had.

[jonbxx]

Masks are still very needed when flying. Is flew on holiday a couple of weeks back with Tui and it was mask on at Gatwick and it stayed on apart from when eating or drinking until we landed and out of the airport. 12 hours in total. No big deal to be honest, the biggest thing is to dress light so you don't overheat.

There were people on the plane who had medical exemptions. And so did their spouses. And so did their kids. One of those poor families went ballistic when harmless insecticide was sprayed through the plane on landing. The Chief Purser tried to defuse the situation but in the end lost a bit of patience saying that they should have worn a mask then and if they refused to let the crew set off the insecticide, then the plane couldn't let passengers off and they would need to take it up with the other 230 passengers!

Just checked as I am flying with work in a couple of weeks and BA are still mandating masks - https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...lcome-on-board

As are Jet2, RyanAir, easyJet, TUI, KLM, Aer Lingus, & Virgin Atlantic.

[papa smurf]

No masks on pierr's flight though, that's a bonus.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

No masks on pierr's flight though, that's a bonus.

Must be a private jet.