Britain outside the EU

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Trade talks with India start this year, but China needs to start behaving itself before we jump into any arrangements with them.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by Chris

On the contrary, for my part at least, it is integral to my belief that this country was excessively entangled in the EU, that disentangling us would cause certain short term difficulties. Furthermore, getting into a position where we can take advantage of our newfound freedom will take time. It has been 40 years since we have had to operate an independent trade policy so obviously we’re not going to get everything was aspire to have, from day one.

I might argue whether certain things are or are not a product of Brexit, but I would certainly never argue that Brexit as a process does not come with complications. My point is, existing as a sovereign state with full democratic control of its own institutions and agencies is for the long-term good of the nation and its people, and this country’s resilience is such that it can more than cope with the effort necessary to get us there.

Exactly.

[Mad Max]

Originally Posted by Chris

On the contrary, for my part at least, it is integral to my belief that this country was excessively entangled in the EU, that disentangling us would cause certain short term difficulties. Furthermore, getting into a position where we can take advantage of our newfound freedom will take time. It has been 40 years since we have had to operate an independent trade policy so obviously we’re not going to get everything was aspire to have, from day one.

I might argue whether certain things are or are not a product of Brexit, but I would certainly never argue that Brexit as a process does not come with complications. My point is, existing as a sovereign state with full democratic control of its own institutions and agencies is for the long-term good of the nation and its people, and this country’s resilience is such that it can more than cope with the effort necessary to get us there.

Well said.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Who'd have thought regaining sovereignty would amount to snivelling about which world leader was the latest to be mean to us

Your perspective on things never fails to make me laugh, TheDaddy.

You must see a very black world out there.

---------- Post added at 21:08 ---------- Previous post was at 21:00 ----------

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Indeed, however, to counter you then have some of those who voted/wanted to leave who refuse to accept that Brexit plays any part whatsoever in any of the current issues that the country faces.


Guilt on both sides

I won’t use the term Brexiteer as I don’t believe it should be used as an insult
to those that made a democratise choice.

Ah, yes, democracy should never be forgotten in this debate.

Unfortunately, that doesn’t discourage those with a totalitarian mindset from trying to find every sensationalist headline suggesting that we made a gargantuan mistake, even though the decision has now been made.

I think Brexiteers always knew that the ‘remoaners’ would try to point out that everything that went wrong after Brexit was due to Brexit. But as time goes on, that will become more and more difficult to justify.

Maybe we should just let these short-sighted people have their day. After all, the truth of the matter will become undeniable with time.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Your perspective on things never fails to make me laugh, TheDaddy.

You must see a very black world out there.

---------- Post added at 21:08 ---------- Previous post was at 21:00 ----------



Ah, yes, democracy should never be forgotten in this debate.

Unfortunately, that doesn’t discourage those with a totalitarian mindset from trying to find every sensationalist headline suggesting that we made a gargantuan mistake, even though the decision has now been made.

I think Brexiteers always knew that the ‘remoaners’ would try to point out that everything that went wrong after Brexit was due to Brexit. But as time goes on, that will become more and more difficult to justify.

Maybe we should just let these short-sighted people have their day. After all, the truth of the matter will become undeniable with time.

And as an alternative view there are some that are blaming covid for every single thing that’s going wrong, that also will become more and more difficult to sustain over time.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Chris

On the contrary, for my part at least, it is integral to my belief that this country was excessively entangled in the EU, that disentangling us would cause certain short term difficulties. Furthermore, getting into a position where we can take advantage of our newfound freedom will take time. It has been 40 years since we have had to operate an independent trade policy so obviously we’re not going to get everything was aspire to have, from day one.

I might argue whether certain things are or are not a product of Brexit, but I would certainly never argue that Brexit as a process does not come with complications. My point is, existing as a sovereign state with full democratic control of its own institutions and agencies is for the long-term good of the nation and its people, and this country’s resilience is such that it can more than cope with the effort necessary to get us there.

Funnily enough that was my exact reasoning for staying in, that we were to entrenched and getting out was going to cause more trouble and pain than it was worth.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Your perspective on things never fails to make me laugh, TheDaddy.

You must see a very black world out there.

I didn't know bots laughed

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

And as an alternative view there are some that are blaming covid for every single thing that’s going wrong, that also will become more and more difficult to sustain over time.

I don’t disagree with you on that, although at the same time, the impact of Covid should not be denied.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Chris

On the contrary, for my part at least, it is integral to my belief that this country was excessively entangled in the EU, that disentangling us would cause certain short term difficulties. Furthermore, getting into a position where we can take advantage of our newfound freedom will take time. It has been 40 years since we have had to operate an independent trade policy so obviously we’re not going to get everything was aspire to have, from day one.

I might argue whether certain things are or are not a product of Brexit, but I would certainly never argue that Brexit as a process does not come with complications. My point is, existing as a sovereign state with full democratic control of its own institutions and agencies is for the long-term good of the nation and its people, and this country’s resilience is such that it can more than cope with the effort necessary to get us there.

Fair points , I guess it can be asked if the juice is worth the squeeze and that will always be a personal decision.
to add I might also be slightly more confident in our situation if we had any sign of a competent government.

I do seem however to remember that many people (I don’t mean you) who were advocating to leave stating quite clearly that there would be no issues and those those issues which we are seeing we’re deemed as project fear. Now, I’m not saying that everything we are currently facing is 100% due to us leaving but it plays it’s percentage part.

The worst thing i think is that the way that the two camps have vilified each other, it’s operating at an almost extremist level with shouts of treason and racism being used to classify the masses on either side.

---------- Post added at 21:28 ---------- Previous post was at 21:26 ----------

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I don’t disagree with you on that, although at the same time, the impact of Covid should not be denied.

You’re right, it shouldn’t, but, there are those that would seek to blame covid for everything, as there are those that would choose to try and blame
Brexit for everything.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

I didn't know bots laughed

I am sure that will raise a giggle in certain remote and unfathomable places on this planet.

Don’t give up the day job just yet.

---------- Post added at 21:32 ---------- Previous post was at 21:28 ----------

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Fair points , I guess it can be asked if the juice is worth the squeeze and that will always be a personal decision.
to add I might also be slightly more confident in our situation if we had any sign of a competent government.

I do seem however to remember that many people (I don’t mean you) who were advocating to leave stating quite clearly that there would be no issues and those those issues which we are seeing we’re deemed as project fear. Now, I’m not saying that everything we are currently facing is 100% due to us leaving but it plays it’s percentage part.

The worst thing i think is that the way that the two camps have vilified each other, it’s operating at an almost extremist level with shouts of treason and racism being used to classify the masses on either side.

---------- Post added at 21:28 ---------- Previous post was at 21:26 ----------



You’re right, it shouldn’t, but, there are those that would seek to blame covid for everything, as there are those that would choose to try and blame
Brexit for everything.

I am happy to say that I am complete agreement with you on this.

I am not one of those who believed that there would be no issues regarding Brexit. I simply believed, and still do, that the advantages of leaving were more important than the disadvantages.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I am sure that will raise a giggle in certain remote and unfathomable places on this planet.

Don’t give up the day job just yet.

---------- Post added at 21:32 ---------- Previous post was at 21:28 ----------


I am happy to say that I am complete agreement with you on this.

I am not one of those who believed that there would be no issues regarding Brexit. I simply believed, and still do, that the advantages of leaving were more important than the disadvantages.

Oh crap…..

I’m yet to see any of the advantages or signs of advantages, but as before I hope we get them.

My biggest concern now is having a competent enough government to deliver these imho ‘supposed advantages’

[1andrew1]

Michael Barnier's Secret Brexit Diary is being released this coming week. Other books are available and this is obviously his viewpoint, albeit he was obviously in the thick of it.

It seems to suggest that fears that Britain negotiated a bad deal were justified.

In October 2020, David Frost cancelled negotiations and refused to resume them unless the EU publicly changed its position and recognised UK “sovereignty”. A week later he had to humiliatingly crawl back to the table. Most disastrously, the threat of a no deal fell flat. Barnier comments: “The British want us to believe that they are not afraid of a no deal”; they are playing a “game of chicken” and the EU task is to “keep our cool”.

Finally, the EU used deadlines effectively to get its way, whereas the UK walked into a series of traps. May unnecessarily triggered Article 50, which started a two-year stopwatch, without a clear vision of what she wanted. When Davis tried to hurry Barnier up, his response was that “[Davis] is mistaken. We have time on our side”.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/My-Secret-B...rmat=1&depth=1
Guardian review: https://www.theguardian.com/books/20...itish-roasting

[Carth]

Well, he's not going to write in his 'memoirs' that he screwed up is he

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Oh crap…..

I’m yet to see any of the advantages or signs of advantages, but as before I hope we get them.

My biggest concern now is having a competent enough government to deliver these imho ‘supposed advantages’

Agreed. So far, any advantages seem to be being enjoyed by the EU at our expense.

I still don't feel that the deal was particularly great or that the UK has been competent in implementing Brexit. Like you, I hope that the government's competence improves and that we are able to locate and exploit any opportunities that it provides.

[Carth]

Things won't improve until people (especially businesses) stop fighting against it.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Carth

Well, he's not going to write in his 'memoirs' that he screwed up is he

Could write a fictional account of a person in similar circumstances. Like OJ Simpson’s “If I did it…”