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Will Scotland Leave the UK?
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Old 15-10-2020, 00:32   #3451
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by nashville View Post
Cannot believe anyone can say Yes , just because Nicola is on the TV every day, I will never say yes to this question. God help us if they do, as I am too old to move to another country,
Totally agree with you mate, can you imagine the moon howlers that wee nippy has in her government trying to run Scotland, a terrifying thought indeed.
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Old 15-10-2020, 00:51   #3452
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

Still Leave.
Still No.

Thanks for asking.
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Old 15-10-2020, 01:30   #3453
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Itís palpably untrue that the state creates nothing, and a fundamental flaw in your ideology. Which I guess explains the inability to understand an effective coronavirus response - it requires everything you loathe.

Iíll accept though that taxation does fund it, so it does come from the citizens. But it creates what citizens and private enterprise cannot alone. Large scale projects that require common purpose, common goals, and a vision beyond the stock price or profit margin in the next 3-5 years.

Weíve moved on somewhat from Scottish independence, however at least weíve agreed that Britain is the hollowed out shell of a once-great state. Itís little wonder people of Scotland see little value in clinging to it, especially if your opinion/ideology continues to prevail in England.
Who else and where? You are the only one who has stated that.
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Old 15-10-2020, 01:53   #3454
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Who else and where? You are the only one who has stated that.
Correct.
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Old 15-10-2020, 09:08   #3455
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

I’ve simply inferred from the inability to seemingly pay World War Two debts without simply passing it down from one generation to the next. Despite a mass sell off of state assets. The role, purpose and effectiveness of the state both domestically and internationally are hugely diminished.

It’s almost as if before the 1950s there was something else to extract wealth from that’s no longer there.

Spoiler: Empire.

I still don’t see anything selling the Union to yes voters.
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Old 15-10-2020, 21:01   #3456
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
Is there much of a downside for England from Scottish independence?
Erecting a hard border would be the main issue.


Can we have those billions back, that we sent to Scotland for Covid matters?
The downside? That would be working out how exactly we would spend all that extra money in the government coffers without having the Barnett formula to suck us dry.

The erection of borders seems to be an EU speciality.

---------- Post added at 20:01 ---------- Previous post was at 19:53 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Scottish tax receipts are unknown. GERS gets discredited every year as an estimate. An estimate that relies on HMRC apportioning tax receipts to Scotland in a way that's simply impossible to calculate accurately. VAT for one.

Neither does it reflect the ability of Scotland to vary it's tax receipts. Maybe something like Sweden - raising public expenditure to 50% of GDP, raising some taxes to support it and having a happier society overall. High levels of public trust between Government and the people. A healthcare system that wouldn't readily be overwhelmed by Covid. It could really be something to aspire to...
If Scotland has so much financial promise, why are we subsidising them to the tune of £1,000 per capita? How would Scotland afford their health and social care services without it? How would they replace lost income from depreciating oil? There are many, many questions about the ability of Scotland to stand on its own two feet, and no-one seems to have any answers.

But hold on...jfman, youíre an economist! How could this work? Wee Krankie is desperate to know because she is becoming highly embarrassed by having to keep changing the subject.

Or should I have said Ďembarrassingí?
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Old 15-10-2020, 21:06   #3457
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

If any of these things were actually true Old Boy I don't know why you are upset about seperation.

Had you read and understood the post you quoted it's impossible to say the extent, if at all, Scotland is subsidised. You can only quote the Barnett formula. A UK Government creation based on UK government expenditure.
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Old 15-10-2020, 21:16   #3458
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
If any of these things were actually true Old Boy I don't know why you are upset about seperation.

Had you read and understood the post you quoted it's impossible to say the extent, if at all, Scotland is subsidised. You can only quote the Barnett formula. A UK Government creation based on UK government expenditure.
Link

Quote:
Q: Who produces GERS?
A: GERS is produced by Scottish Government statisticians. It is designated as a National Statistics product, which means that it is produced independently of Scottish Ministers and has been assessed by the UK Statistics Authority as being produced in line with the Code of Practice for Statistics. This means the statistics have been found to meet user needs, to be methodologically sound, explained well and produced free of political interference.
The gap is huge, it's several billion. You're talking about a supposed missing extra 20%(£13bn) in revenue. If that was true, it couldn't go unnoticed and unidentified.
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Old 15-10-2020, 21:18   #3459
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
If any of these things were actually true Old Boy I don't know why you are upset about seperation.

Had you read and understood the post you quoted it's impossible to say the extent, if at all, Scotland is subsidised. You can only quote the Barnett formula. A UK Government creation based on UK government expenditure.
Iím not at all upset. Iím rubbing my hands with expectation, actually.

I think you are trying to be clever, but we see through these answers. Because they are not answers at all, you are deflecting the questions. What I said is that the Barnett formula is worth £1,000 to every man, woman and child in Scotland. Scotland will have to find how to make up that loss if it left the UK as well as find the funding they need to set up their own government.

Thatís a lot of money. And yet no-one seems to have a clue as to how to bridge the gap. However, it is one big financial burden we wonít have to bear in what remains of the UK. I say, whatís not to like?
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Old 15-10-2020, 21:21   #3460
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

Scottish Government statisticians that rely on UK Government figures, often estimates, of tax receipts that it'd be almost impossible to accurately calculate.

Any business VAT return for example cannot readily be apportioned to English VAT and Scottish VAT.
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Old 15-10-2020, 21:23   #3461
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Scottish Government statisticians that rely on UK Government figures, often estimates, of tax receipts that it'd be almost impossible to accurately calculate.

Any business VAT return for example cannot readily be apportioned to English VAT and Scottish VAT.
Watch out for them evil English.
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Old 15-10-2020, 21:23   #3462
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
I’m not at all upset. I’m rubbing my hands with expectation, actually.

I think you are trying to be clever, but we see through these answers. Because they are not answers at all, you are deflecting the questions. What I said is that the Barnett formula is worth £1,000 to every man, woman and child in Scotland. Scotland will have to find how to make up that loss if it left the UK as well as find the funding they need to set up their own government.

That’s a lot of money. And yet no-one seems to have a clue as to how to bridge the gap. However, it is one big financial burden we won’t have to bear in what remains of the UK. I say, what’s not to like?
Yet you argue vociferously against the prospect. I think you should avoid following me round the forums to get embarrassed in thread after thread. Streaming, Coronavirus and now Scottish independence.

You don't know enough about the subject to meaningfully offer any input, instead you offer age old tried and tested unionist tripe. 45% of the population saw through it in 2014 and likely more when asked next time.

You make the false assumption that Scotland couldn't reform the tax system or dramatically cut expenditure. Things like Trident are immediate quick wins, and aircraft carriers with no aircraft.
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Old 15-10-2020, 21:43   #3463
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Scottish Government statisticians that rely on UK Government figures, often estimates, of tax receipts that it'd be almost impossible to accurately calculate.

Any business VAT return for example cannot readily be apportioned to English VAT and Scottish VAT.
Really?
Quote:
Q: Do you use company headquarters to assign corporation tax or taxes like VAT?
A: No. Corporation tax on trading profits is estimated on a company-by-company basis, depending on the economic activity each company has in Scotland, not location of company headquarters. VAT is a consumption tax, and is therefore estimated based on purchases that are made in Scotland, rather than the location of a company’s head office.
As I've pointed out a supposed 20% extra missing revenue is too big to be really missing.
2018-19 spending £78,598m, income(including oil) £65,442m. £13bn required to bridge the gap.

---------- Post added at 20:43 ---------- Previous post was at 20:37 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Yet you argue vociferously against the prospect. I think you should avoid following me round the forums to get embarrassed in thread after thread. Streaming, Coronavirus and now Scottish independence.

You don't know enough about the subject to meaningfully offer any input, instead you offer age old tried and tested unionist tripe. 45% of the population saw through it in 2014 and likely more when asked next time.

You make the false assumption that Scotland couldn't reform the tax system or dramatically cut expenditure. Things like Trident are immediate quick wins, and aircraft carriers with no aircraft.
Link

Only £3.3bn of defence spending was attributed to Scotland, still £10bn to find. And that's with no defence spending in Scotland at all. How would fiddling around with tax generate an extra 20% revenue? If it was that easy, everybody would be doing it.
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Old 15-10-2020, 23:10   #3464
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
aircraft carriers with no aircraft.
Apart from these ones?



For someone so vexed by age-old unionist tripe, you’re awfully fond of age-old separatist tripe.
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Old 15-10-2020, 23:20   #3465
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

Separatist tripe would, on the basis of polling, seem to have the edge going forward though.
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