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Changes to Virgin TV (2021)
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Old 13-01-2021, 20:49   #91
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Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2021)

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Old Boy I fail to see why you call me argumentative when you move on to claim you made a point that is substantively different from the one made at first almost every time you are challenged.

What is this alternative product that has all the apps all integrated into one search function, and if such a product exists why didn't you answer the question directly the first time?
Could you please clarify in which post I actually said there was such an alternative product? I have never said that - this is your point, not mine.
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Old 13-01-2021, 22:02   #92
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Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2021)

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Could you please clarify in which post I actually said there was such an alternative product? I have never said that - this is your point, not mine.
You asked me what points you had been evading - this was one of the direct questions that I've asked twice.

I can't work out from the post above if you are either unable or unwilling to answer direct questions. I'm not sure the difference matters substantively.

The reality is the Virgin Media product (and Sky product) exist in the actual marketplace and there's no incentive to become a one stop shop for any and every streamer going. There's no incentive to push minority interest junk into into search results on behalf of streamers regardless of whether people subscribe or not.
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Old 14-01-2021, 00:04   #93
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Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2021)

Well, I answered your questions. Did you actually read the responses?

Not that I care, this is another of your wind-ups, so I’m done here.
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Old 14-01-2021, 01:11   #94
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Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2021)

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Originally Posted by SonicMaster View Post
Article on Virgin TV Edit about the addition of Sky Documentaries SD and Sky Nature SD to VM:

https://www.virginmedia.com/virgin-t...hannels-launch

It's actually great timing, as these 2 channels are much better than the closed Discovery Home & Health and Discovery Shed.
I was viewing them more as a replacement for LoveNature, as Sky Nature showing LoveNature content is probably indirectly responsible for the departure.

2 SD channels with adverts for 1 HD channel without ads is a mixed result. Sky Documentaries looks decent, but I'd rather have LoveNature back.
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Old 14-01-2021, 09:44   #95
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Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2021)

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Well, I answered your questions. Did you actually read the responses?

Not that I care, this is another of your wind-ups, so I’m done here.
It took three attempts, and an initial denial that you had.

I’m not sure how it can be described as a “wind up” to ask you to point to alternative products when you claim Virgin are failing to provide something there’s such obvious demand for.
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Old 14-01-2021, 10:32   #96
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Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2021)

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
The streamers themselves recognise that the key to keeping customers lies in helping them to find their content more easily, and they also recognise that they will have more success if their content is available on multiple platforms.
Streamers are more than just content providers and content aggregators. They generally own the relationship with the customer and the application that enables customers to access that content. It is not usually in an individual streaming company's interests for people to navigate this through a third party interface as it makes it easier to navigate between different providers and people say "I saw this great series on Sky" as oppose to "I saw this great box set on Discovery +"

That is why they want people to stay in their own ecosystems and not to stray to other providers' services. Helping customers find their content more easily works in the confines of their own apps but beyond it can work against them. They don't want customers to see over the walls of their walled gardens.
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Old 14-01-2021, 10:54   #97
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Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2021)

Must admit, I'm not sure I'd want to have SD wildlife & nature content given an HD choice...

I'm guessing that these channels are fed to VM in HD, and downscaled to SD - not sure if Sky carry an SD equivalent or not.

That said, I agree the SD versions are a good lower-tier addition...
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Old 14-01-2021, 11:23   #98
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Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2021)

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Originally Posted by japitts View Post
Must admit, I'm not sure I'd want to have SD wildlife & nature content given an HD choice...

I'm guessing that these channels are fed to VM in HD, and downscaled to SD - not sure if Sky carry an SD equivalent or not.

That said, I agree the SD versions are a good lower-tier addition...
As with all Sky channels there are SD versions, and that is what people get if they don't have the HD pack. It just took VM a while to add them.
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Old 14-01-2021, 11:34   #99
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Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2021)

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
Streamers are more than just content providers and content aggregators. They generally own the relationship with the customer and the application that enables customers to access that content. It is not usually in an individual streaming company's interests for people to navigate this through a third party interface as it makes it easier to navigate between different providers and people say "I saw this great series on Sky" as oppose to "I saw this great box set on Discovery +"

That is why they want people to stay in their own ecosystems and not to stray to other providers' services. Helping customers find their content more easily works in the confines of their own apps but beyond it can work against them. They don't want customers to see over the walls of their walled gardens.
Exactly. Even BBC shows with a big BBC logo at the start of every episode (and efen on the show tile) get mistaken for other services output. I keep being amazed at the number who mistakenly associate UK shows with likes of Netflix, and I'm not talking about those that are co-productions.

And there a so many stories you read about people only discovering well known shows on Netflix, it's astounding how many seem unwilling to exit the app to look at other services, it's a virtuous circle for them, one every other broadcaster now realises they have to break.
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Old 14-01-2021, 12:58   #100
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Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2021)

Virgin TV Channel Guide updated:
https://www.virginmedia.com/virgin-t...-channel-guide

Desktop PDF: https://www.virginmedia.com/content/...nuary_2021.pdf
Mobile PDF: https://www.virginmedia.com/content/...nuary_2021.pdf

Personal Picks updated:
https://www.virginmedia.com/content/...nuary_2021.pdf
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Old 14-01-2021, 13:28   #101
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Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2021)

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
Streamers are more than just content providers and content aggregators. They generally own the relationship with the customer and the application that enables customers to access that content. It is not usually in an individual streaming company's interests for people to navigate this through a third party interface as it makes it easier to navigate between different providers and people say "I saw this great series on Sky" as oppose to "I saw this great box set on Discovery +"

That is why they want people to stay in their own ecosystems and not to stray to other providers' services. Helping customers find their content more easily works in the confines of their own apps but beyond it can work against them. They don't want customers to see over the walls of their walled gardens.
And while Sky/Virgin do carry third party channels (and always have) they’ve known that the revenue to the third party is also dependent upon the success of Sky/Virgin and that they can reap in the success.

It’s in the streamers interests to break that link longer term and there’s no competitive edge to Sky/Virgin to facilitate third parties retailing directly to their customers. To that end it’s only really worth Sky/Virgin to facilitate this for streamers who have already hit critical mass (e.g. Netflix, Amazon) or are extremely likely to (Disney), or to those that already have widespread presence (on Smart TVs etc).
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Old 14-01-2021, 17:19   #102
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Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2021)

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
Streamers are more than just content providers and content aggregators. They generally own the relationship with the customer and the application that enables customers to access that content. It is not usually in an individual streaming company's interests for people to navigate this through a third party interface as it makes it easier to navigate between different providers and people say "I saw this great series on Sky" as oppose to "I saw this great box set on Discovery +"

That is why they want people to stay in their own ecosystems and not to stray to other providers' services. Helping customers find their content more easily works in the confines of their own apps but beyond it can work against them. They don't want customers to see over the walls of their walled gardens.
I'm not sure how true that is, Andrew. Such an arrangement is attractive to the customer and makes the provider stand out from other providers because it makes searching easy.

As far as providers not wishing to see the content of other streaming services in their offerings, how do you explain the fact that when searching Amazon, Netflix shows also come up? On Apple+, StarzPlay content shows up. When you search in Virgin Media, results come up for Netflix, Amazon and TV channels as well as the PPV Virgin Media Store.

Providers who make the choices more straight forward for their customers deserve to do well, and I am sure they will.

---------- Post added at 16:19 ---------- Previous post was at 16:14 ----------

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Originally Posted by cheekyangus View Post
Exactly. Even BBC shows with a big BBC logo at the start of every episode (and efen on the show tile) get mistaken for other services output. I keep being amazed at the number who mistakenly associate UK shows with likes of Netflix, and I'm not talking about those that are co-productions.

And there a so many stories you read about people only discovering well known shows on Netflix, it's astounding how many seem unwilling to exit the app to look at other services, it's a virtuous circle for them, one every other broadcaster now realises they have to break.
I hear what you say, but I think you are comparing Netflix with the TV channels, and the problem with the latter is that they are scheduled services, and once you've missed the programme, it comes off the EPG. With Netflix, all the shows are there, ready for you to pick one.

I know that some people may not realise that something they are watching was made somewhere else, but as long as you are subscribing, why should anyone care? The BBC will get their cut for shows they lodge on Netflix.
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Old 14-01-2021, 17:29   #103
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Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2021)

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
I'm not sure how true that is, Andrew. Such an arrangement is attractive to the customer and makes the provider stand out from other providers because it makes searching easy.

As far as providers not wishing to see the content of other streaming services in their offerings, how do you explain the fact that when searching Amazon, Netflix shows also come up? On Apple+, StarzPlay content shows up. When you search in Virgin Media, results come up for Netflix, Amazon and TV channels as well as the PPV Virgin Media Store.

Providers who make the choices more straight forward for their customers deserve to do well, and I am sure they will.

---------- Post added at 16:19 ---------- Previous post was at 16:14 ----------



I hear what you say, but I think you are comparing Netflix with the TV channels, and the problem with the latter is that they are scheduled services, and once you've missed the programme, it comes off the EPG. With Netflix, all the shows are there, ready for you to pick one.

I know that some people may not realise that something they are watching was made somewhere else, but as long as you are subscribing, why should anyone care? The BBC will get their cut for shows they lodge on Netflix.
It's not about the customer caring, it's about the Streamer caring that the customer identifies with it, not the collater of programmes.
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Old 14-01-2021, 18:29   #104
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Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2021)

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It's not about the customer caring, it's about the Streamer caring that the customer identifies with it, not the collater of programmes.
This is where Old Boy's example is poorly thought out. Virgin aren't selling you a glorified smart stick in box form. They're selling you a TV package.

If they just dump all the content into one search box and every option says "sorry, please subscribe to Amazon", Netflix, Disney, Apple, Starzplay, Eleven Sports (RIP) suddenly people ask themselves what they are paying Virgin Media for!

Incidentally my Netflix monthly cost is now greater than what I pay over and above 200MB standalone broadband for Maxit TV.
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Old 14-01-2021, 19:43   #105
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Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2021)

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I hear what you say, but I think you are comparing Netflix with the TV channels, and the problem with the latter is that they are scheduled services, and once you've missed the programme, it comes off the EPG. With Netflix, all the shows are there, ready for you to pick one.

I know that some people may not realise that something they are watching was made somewhere else, but as long as you are subscribing, why should anyone care? The BBC will get their cut for shows they lodge on Netflix.
The problem is that people who may be consuming a lot of a particular supplier's content will be getting it from a 3rd Party where the creator gets a much smaller cut of the money than they would if they went through the creator's own service.

Some creator's are too small so they have no option but to be part of bigger service.

The particular variation of this problem with the BBC is there is potentially a scenario where someone unknowingly consumes a lot of BBC content and yet complains about paying for the license fee as they don't make anything they watch, when in fact that's precisely what they are doing.

If creators become invisible the streamer will get too much power. A similar thing has happened in computer/video games, there was a time when gamers knew who was responsible for their favourite games, the actual individual people. Now the industry is full of a few big publishers who have deliberately anonymised development teams by renaming them under the company brand as it gives them more power to dictate to their staff.

If the likes of Netflix gets too big they will have increasing leverage to give their 3rd party suppliers smaller and smaller cuts. It could even be compared to UK supermarkets industry, food suppliers are always in the news complaining about the supermarkets continually squeezing their margins.
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