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The future of television
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Old 26-05-2021, 12:35   #256
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Re: The future of television

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Originally Posted by Hom3r View Post
I hope Fox doesn't close as I watch Fox HD every Friday for my NCIS fix.
Sadly, no ifs or buts, new owners Disney have announced they are closing Fox on 30th June.

Not sure where NCIS is going, we'll have to wait to find out. It might be Disney+.
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Old 08-06-2021, 18:10   #257
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Re: The future of television

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Originally Posted by cheekyangus View Post
There will always be Live content so there will always be a need for an EPG, or equivalent of, even if it's just for a handful of Live-content-only channels.

Virtually all prerecorded programming will eventually be on-demand, possibly maybe a few shows will be used to fill short gaps in Live channels.

There might even be a few genre-themed and/or provider-authored channels for trailers. My argument is that some people might find it helpful to have something they can turn to to know what's available on the various on-demand services. These would likely be automatically compiled streams rather than broadcast. The Live-content channels will remain broadcast until lag is sorted, possibly longer as there will probably be reasons that aren't obvious to us end-users for broadcast continuing.

Something being streamed rather than broadcast doesn't mean channels will disappear, it doesn't stop being a channel because it's delivered differently, Live-content will require navigating, and comparing side-by-side so the viewer can decide which, if any, Live content to watch, so a grid guide system of some sort for Live content will likely continue. But awful navigation has never stopped stopped a service being a success, just look at Facebook.

Given EPG stands for Electronic Programme Guide and those words could describe the interface to every existing VOD service, maybe the term EPG will simply be redefined. If we were looking for a more accurate name for what is currently called an EPG we would probably call it an Electronic Channel Schedule instead.
We’ll see, cheekyangus. My view is that all content will be IPTV, and so TV channels (and therefore EPGs) will be unnecessary.

Boxing PPV is not on a ‘channel’ in the conventional sense, so why should other live events be?

The TV companies could decide to present live events the way you envisage, but they don’t have to. It will be a bit ‘old tech’ by then, don’t you think?
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Old 08-06-2021, 23:39   #258
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Re: The future of television

This thread is like a wee floating turd that just won’t go away.
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Old 09-06-2021, 07:53   #259
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Re: The future of television

Nice turn of phrase to read as I ate my breakfast this morning!
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Old 09-06-2021, 16:54   #260
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Re: The future of television

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Weíll see, cheekyangus. My view is that all content will be IPTV, and so TV channels (and therefore EPGs) will be unnecessary.


IPTV services have EPGs. That's how people view what's available to them now, alongside other menus that make available lists of what is available on demand.

Quote:
Boxing PPV is not on a Ďchannelí in the conventional sense, so why should other live events be?

The TV companies could decide to present live events the way you envisage, but they donít have to. It will be a bit Ďold techí by then, donít you think?
Well no, OB.

Even if you use the BT Sport app, or Sky Sports on "TV from Sky" on a PlayStation despite neither of them being broadcast "over the air" they present what is available live now and what is available "later" in a chronological fashion.

Do you think the average consumer wants to fire up these apps and see a jumble sale of content from the next 7 days with what is available now appearing on page 4 or 5 of a menu?

I think such a concept is palpably ridiculous.
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Old 09-06-2021, 17:37   #261
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Re: The future of television

Let's not transfer the bickering from another thread onto this one, please?
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Old 09-06-2021, 19:44   #262
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Re: The future of television

David Boucher still embraces the idea of VM as a super-aggregator, which is reassuring. However, VM is currently behind the curve - they need to get a move on.

https://advanced-television.com/2021...pp-aggregator/

David Bouchier, Chief TV & Entertainment Officer at UK multiplay operator Virgin Media O2, has suggested the service is still working with the same content providers, but whereas previously it was an aggregator of pay-TV channels, it was becoming an aggregator of SVoD apps.

This won’t please the diehards, but at least it does seem to suggest that Virgin are not currently considering abandoning the TV side of their business.

---------- Post added at 19:44 ---------- Previous post was at 19:35 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post


IPTV services have EPGs. That's how people view what's available to them now, alongside other menus that make available lists of what is available on demand.
Where is the EPG for Netflix, Prime, Apple+, StarzPlay, etc? None of these SVODs have EPGs - instead, they have categories.

Thereís nothing to stop any of these services from providing EPGs if they want to, just as Now and Pluto do now. However, I think most SVOD providers wonít bother with that.
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Old 09-06-2021, 19:50   #263
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Re: The future of television

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
This wonít please the diehards
Thereís one user, and one only, of this forum who can be described as a die hard around this subject.

I note you ignored the bad news:

As each SVoD player has started to see mature markets, their growth curve declines.

We expect to see those big services requiring to be closer, embedded into our billing and our subscriber relationships

Sounds like he is closer to my view that these fledgling streaming services need Sky and Virgin Media more than the other way around.
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Old 09-06-2021, 19:55   #264
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Re: The future of television

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post



Well no, OB.

Even if you use the BT Sport app, or Sky Sports on "TV from Sky" on a PlayStation despite neither of them being broadcast "over the air" they present what is available live now and what is available "later" in a chronological fashion.

Do you think the average consumer wants to fire up these apps and see a jumble sale of content from the next 7 days with what is available now appearing on page 4 or 5 of a menu?

I think such a concept is palpably ridiculous.
It makes sense to list the times of PPV events, of course it does. But these arenít really EPGs in the same sense. Currently, EPGs set out programmes on TV channels, one programme following another in a continuous schedule.

With PPV events, you may well get live events set out in time order, but they need not be sequential in the same way as a channel is - they will either be displayed in order of times or they could be displayed by event type (eg football, concerts, etc). Some of these events will overlap rather than be back to back.

But the concept of TV channels will not generally exist because it would not be a popular choice in an OTT environment.

I would be very interested to know what proportion of Nowís audience watch programmes on their live channels via the EPG rather than from the on demand section of the streamer.
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Old 09-06-2021, 19:58   #265
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Re: The future of television

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
It makes sense to list the times of PPV events, of course it does. But these arenít really EPGs in the same sense. Currently, EPGs set out programmes on TV channels, one programme following another in a continuous schedule.

With PPV events, you may well get live events set out in time order, but they need not be sequential in the same way as a channel is - they will either be displayed in order of times or they could be displayed by event type (eg football, concerts, etc). Some of these events will overlap rather than be back to back.

But the concept of TV channels will not generally exist because it would not be a popular choice in an OTT environment.

I would be very interested to know what proportion of Nowís audience watch programmes on their live channels via the EPG rather than from the on demand section of the streamer.
Iím not sure why itíd be any more interesting than how many people watch Line of Duty as broadcast on BBC 1 than on iPlayer.
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Old 09-06-2021, 20:05   #266
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Re: The future of television

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Thereís one user, and one only, of this forum who can be described as a die hard around this subject.

I note you ignored the bad news:

As each SVoD player has started to see mature markets, their growth curve declines.

We expect to see those big services requiring to be closer, embedded into our billing and our subscriber relationships

Sounds like he is closer to my view that these fledgling streaming services need Sky and Virgin Media more than the other way around.
I didnít ignore it, jfman. Nor did I take the meaning the way you took it, but I donít find that at all surprising.

I think we all appreciate that as a market matures, the growth is less fast and eventually flattens out. However, while growth may slow, that doesnít necessarily mean that the time viewers spend on the app follows that trend. Indeed, as viewers adjust to on demand environments, they will watch more in that way. Habits change over time.

---------- Post added at 20:05 ---------- Previous post was at 20:00 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Iím not sure why itíd be any more interesting than how many people watch Line of Duty as broadcast on BBC 1 than on iPlayer.
The reason itís interesting is because weíve all been brought up with TV channels and the way we watch content. We know that currently more people watch BBC content from easily accessible broadcast channels.

However, Now operates in a more integrated way, with the prominence of VOD and scheduled TV reversed. Both live TV and on demand viewing is on there, but the emphasis is on VOD. When presented in that reverse order, I believe that most people would go straight to on demand.
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Old 09-06-2021, 20:05   #267
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Re: The future of television

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
I didn’t ignore it, jfman. Nor did I take the meaning the way you took it, but I don’t find that at all surprising.
His words are there in black and white - how else could he mean it?

Quote:
I think we all appreciate that as a market matures, the growth is less fast and eventually flattens out. However, while growth may slow, that doesn’t necessarily mean that the time viewers spend on the app follows that trend. Indeed, as viewers adjust to on demand environments, they will watch more in that way. Habits change over time.
I appreciate that you’ve now accepted what I’ve been saying for some time. End users do not have unlimited disposable income - in particular due to the pandemic - and this creates an increasingly precarious situation for new entrants who are fundamentally trying to squeeze into an already well developed market.

Quote:
The reason it’s interesting is because we’ve all been brought up with TV channels and the way we watch content. We know that currently more people watch BBC content from easily accessible broadcast channels.

However, Now operates in a more integrated way, with the prominence of VOD and scheduled TV reversed. Both live TV and on demand viewing is on there, but the emphasis is on VOD. When presented in that reverse order, I believe that most people would go straight to on demand.
Fundamentally you are introducing a bias to seek out the result that you want rather than consider consumer behaviour in the television market as a while.

As a Now TV subscriber the quality of on demand streams is higher than the live stream for content on the entertainment pass. The reality for the vast majority comparing broadcast HDTV is the other way around.

Last edited by jfman; 09-06-2021 at 20:11.
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Old 09-06-2021, 20:07   #268
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Re: The future of television

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Originally Posted by Hom3r View Post
I hope Fox doesn't close as I watch Fox HD every Friday for my NCIS fix.
My 87 year old Mother is obsessed with NCIS, never has anything else on. Mind you it could be because she's lost or forgotten how to use the remote...
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Old 09-06-2021, 20:20   #269
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Re: The future of television

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post

I appreciate that youíve now accepted what Iíve been saying for some time. End users do not have unlimited disposable income - in particular due to the pandemic - and this creates an increasingly precarious situation for new entrants who are fundamentally trying to squeeze into an already well developed market.
What do you mean, Ďnow acceptedí? I have always accepted that people donít have unlimited disposable income. Why would you think otherwise? Yet again, you are attributing an argument to me that I have never made.

The number of new subscribers will grow less fast, and eventually flatten out over time because thatís the limit of interest in the streamer.

People who canít afford more (or any) SVOD providers will turn to AVOD providers instead, and most VOD providers will probably give us that choice over time, although Netflix has ruled out an AVOD option up until now.

---------- Post added at 20:18 ---------- Previous post was at 20:14 ----------

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
His words are there in black and white - how else could he mean it?


.
I read what was actually written, and that does not contradict what I think or anything I have said in any way.

How it fits in with your thoughts on the matter Iím not sure, but if you are able to make sense of it within your belief system, Iím perfectly happy with this.

---------- Post added at 20:20 ---------- Previous post was at 20:18 ----------

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My 87 year old Mother is obsessed with NCIS, never has anything else on. Mind you it could be because she's lost or forgotten how to use the remote...
My grandmother became more confused as she became older and would only ever watch ITV. She never, ever, turned the channel!
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Old 09-06-2021, 20:34   #270
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Re: The future of television

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
What do you mean, Ďnow acceptedí? I have always accepted that people donít have unlimited disposable income. Why would you think otherwise? Yet again, you are attributing an argument to me that I have never made.

The number of new subscribers will grow less fast, and eventually flatten out over time because thatís the limit of interest in the streamer.
And fall for streamers who fail to continue to offer value in an ever competitive market.

Quote:
People who canít afford more (or any) SVOD providers will turn to AVOD providers instead, and most VOD providers will probably give us that choice over time, although Netflix has ruled out an AVOD option up until now.
I suspect many would just continue with Freeview to be fair and/or continue with the best pay-tv services that deliver value for them.

I fail to see why the average person, technologically agnostic, would have any appetite at all for ceasing to watch their existing preferences in favour as yet unidentified AVOD services.

Quote:
I read what was actually written, and that does not contradict what I think or anything I have said in any way.

How it fits in with your thoughts on the matter Iím not sure, but if you are able to make sense of it within your belief system, Iím perfectly happy with this.
Itís your dogmatic belief system, OB. Iím just watching the evolution of the television market with objectivity.
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