Brexit (Old)

[Angua]

Originally Posted by tweetiepooh

But I don't want to vote for a party, I want to elect my local MP.

And you can't say that n% of votes didn't count. They all did, they elected their local MP who (should) represent them.

Too much in Europe is divorced from the electorate. How can we affect outcomes individually against a wider majority if our representation is elected more widely? This isn't to say minority issues should overrule but they should be heard.

Truly 64% of votes made absolutely no difference to the outcome. That is 64% of people needn't have bothered to vote and the result would have been just the same.

I may have a constituency MP but I have not voted for any MP I have been lumped with since first I could vote. So how do they truly represent me or my politics? With PR there could be a choice of MPs to contact, one of whom would nearer represent me politically.

The EU works on political groupings and work for the good of the whole of Europe. Similarly the voters of England and Wales have voted to take the UK out of EU. Scotland, NI and Gibraltar have no choice in the matter. The majority have voted against their wishes.

---------- Post added at 15:44 ---------- Previous post was at 15:41 ----------

Originally Posted by ianch99

Nice try but no cigar.

MP's are elected to represent their constituencies and their party. They are not elected to become PM or to serve in Cabinet. You can even have the case of a MP becoming PM that did not lead the party and win the General Election.

If Boris becomes PM, no one voted for a Conservative Party led by Boris Johnson with the corresponding change in policy & direction that such a appointment would bring.

Odd how few seem to understand that only the various party mechanisms actually choose and vote for the party leaders. The general public have no say at all.

Only the electorate in that chosen leaders constituency get a direct choice otherwise.

[Sephiroth]

https://euobserver.com/elections/142946

EU court delivers transparency blow on MEP expenses

The General Court of the European Union in Luxembourg in a press release on Tuesday dismissed the case brought by the reporters against the European Parliament in 2015.

But after some three years of deliberations, the court sided with the parliament, echoing similar arguments prioritising the protection of personal data over the wider public interest.

"By today's judgment, the general court dismisses the actions and confirms the parliaments' decisions refusing access to the documents requested," the statement said.

The court said that parliament was entitled to claim that the documents concerned contain personal data.

In other words, it's not the MEP's private spending that is being protected, but the money they spend that has been taken from our pockets as taxpayers should be open to scrutiny as to propriety.

Remainers: You still want to be part of this crooked regime? Snouts in the trough.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

https://euobserver.com/elections/142946

EU court delivers transparency blow on MEP expenses

The General Court of the European Union in Luxembourg in a press release on Tuesday dismissed the case brought by the reporters against the European Parliament in 2015.

But after some three years of deliberations, the court sided with the parliament, echoing similar arguments prioritising the protection of personal data over the wider public interest.

"By today's judgment, the general court dismisses the actions and confirms the parliaments' decisions refusing access to the documents requested," the statement said.

The court said that parliament was entitled to claim that the documents concerned contain personal data.

In other words, it's not the MEP's private spending that is being protected, but the money they spend that has been taken from our pockets as taxpayers should be open to scrutiny as to propriety.

Remainers: You still want to be part of this crooked regime? Snouts in the trough.

Ah, so that's what the General Data Protection Regulation was all about! Might have known it wasn't for our benefit!

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Nice try but no cigar.

MP's are elected to represent their constituencies and their party. They are not elected to become PM or to serve in Cabinet. You can even have the case of a MP becoming PM that did not lead the party and win the General Election.

If Boris becomes PM, no one voted for a Conservative Party led by Boris Johnson with the corresponding change in policy & direction that such a appointment would bring.

For the hard of thinking, to serve as PM or a minister they have to be elected members of parliament, elected by their constituents.

They are not “appointed” to parliament.

EU commissioners are appointed not elected.

You do understand the difference?

Also as opposed to say, the US presidential elections where you vote for an actual individual.

In the UK you vote for a party. The party then decides who their leader is, and therefore who the PM is.

You are also voting on a party manifesto, it shouldn’t really matter who delivers as PM on that manifesto as long as it delivered.

If the party itself decides that the leader is not doing a good job, they can replace him.

So there you have two mechanisms where by you can remove a government or the government can replace a leader.

Which is two more than you get with an EU commissioner

[1andrew1]

For the sake of clarity, unelected bureaucrats do not make decisions in the EU.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politi...endum-36429482

But that's all looking backwards. Looking forward to hearing more of people's vision for the UK post-29/3.

[Sephiroth]

Simples - well not really but if there's No Deal then it's got to be something like:

1. Take the initial No Deal hit.
2. Use the saved initial withdrawal dosh to stimulate the economy.
3. Adjust to the change.
4. Move forward as we know we can.
5. Rejoice in being free from their shackles.

I expect the naysayers to trot out links to articles that put figures to misery. But said naysayers have to recognise that the Referendum voted Leave and that's what we must do. And this country is not going to collapse in a heap, even with an inept government and a bunch of Commie Trots in waiting.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

For the sake of clarity, unelected bureaucrats do not make decisions in the EU.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politi...endum-36429482

But that's all looking backwards. Looking forward to hearing more of people's vision for the UK post-29/3.

The European Commission sets the agenda in the EU, not the politicians. That is the complaint.

[Angua]

UK appoints food supply minister amid fears of a no deal Brexit.

Fresh food, unlike other supplies has a limited shelf life, so this makes sense. I just wonder why, without agreement, suppliers will still attempt to deliver food to the UK at the end of March?

You never know, maybe milk will actually get to a realistic price where farmers can make a bit of profit.

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Simples - well not really but if there's No Deal then it's got to be something like:

1. Take the initial No Deal hit.
2. Use the saved initial withdrawal dosh to stimulate the economy.
3. Adjust to the change.
4. Move forward as we know we can.
5. Rejoice in being free from their shackles.

I expect the naysayers to trot out links to articles that put figures to misery. But said naysayers have to recognise that the Referendum voted Leave and that's what we must do. And this country is not going to collapse in a heap, even with an inept government and a bunch of Commie Trots in waiting.

When Jacob Rees-Mogg says we may not see the benefits for 50 years, 'initial hit' is a fairly broad brush. I might be 97 before we reap the benefits. My 12 year old daughter will be nearing retirement!

[Sephiroth]

The nearly instant benefit will be the release of the shackles.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

The nearly instant benefit will be the release of the shackles.

so, an intangible benefit...

[OLD BOY]

The negativity of these posts is incredible. 97 years before we see any benefit of being out of the EU? Christ, talk about lack of imagination! How can anyone seriously come up with such a precise figure of 97 years anyway when there are so many different possibilities? I think these forecasters are simply making it up as they go along.

A short term hit is possible, but our enterprising nature will see off any longer term issues - unless, of course, Corbyn gets in and frightens all our investors away.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The negativity of these posts is incredible. 97 years before we see any benefit of being out of the EU? Christ, talk about lack of imagination! How can anyone seriously come up with such a precise figure of 97 years anyway when there are so many different possibilities? I think these forecasters are simply making it up as they go along.

A short term hit is possible, but our enterprising nature will see off any longer term issues - unless, of course, Corbyn gets in and frightens all our investors away.

No, he said he would be 97 years old based on Rees-Mogg's 50 year time scale.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The negativity of these posts is incredible. 97 years before we see any benefit of being out of the EU? Christ, talk about lack of imagination! How can anyone seriously come up with such a precise figure of 97 years anyway when there are so many different possibilities? I think these forecasters are simply making it up as they go along.

A short term hit is possible, but our enterprising nature will see off any longer term issues - unless, of course, Corbyn gets in and frightens all our investors away.

Are you saying that Rees-Mogg made this up? We're in danger of agreeing!

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Hugh

so, an intangible benefit...

So what. A huge sigh of relief to be free from the shackles and a first step forward from the half step back the economy MIGHT take.

Yes, I know, the naysayers will say more than one step back; they don't know that any more than I know the half step.

But we will be free from German hegemony, French skewing of the CAP to suit them and free from Irish perfidy.