Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[OF1975]

Originally Posted by The Other Steve

OK, I take your point, if they are busy, they could just say so.

However, with the greatest of respect to Simon et al, the question of how long it takes to put up a statement on a website has a variable answer depending on several factors, including one's technical ability. Having read the interim PIA, I am assuming that Simon may not be his own webmaster, perhaps he is waiting for someone else to update the site. So I will also wait with interest to see if he comments.

Fair point about Simon maybe not being his own webmaster. My main issue is that the longer this takes the more suspicious I am. We have already seen a big change in tactics from Phorm and the PR Team who no longer post.

VM seem to be stalling on making any significant statements maybe waiting and hoping for the issue to die down. The longer we wait for the footage to be uploaded and the longer we wait for any concrete announcement of when it will be uploaded the more suspicious I become as to the reasons for the delay.

Given Kents attitude at the meeting and what Alexander has said about Kents attitude during the click interview I am concerned. This is the main reason I am wary about any further delay.

[The Other Steve]

Originally Posted by OF1975

Fair point about Simon maybe not being his own webmaster. My main issue is that the longer this takes the more suspicious I am. We have already seen a big change in tactics from Phorm and the PR Team who no longer post.

VM seem to be stalling on making any significant statements maybe waiting and hoping for the issue to die down. The longer we wait for the footage to be uploaded and the longer we wait for any concrete announcement of when it will be uploaded the more suspicious I become as to the reasons for the delay.

Given Kents attitude at the meeting and what Alexander has said about Kents attitude during the click interview I am concerned. This is the main reason I am wary about any further delay.

Under more normal circumstances I would say you are being paranoid, but given the current situation, and it's lies upon deceits upon half truths, fair 'nuff. Personally I doubt there's any jiggery pokery going on behind the scenes, but with all that's gone before, who can tell ?

w/r/t to the deafening silence, I am taking this as a fantastic sign of progress. Phorm and all who sail in her have realised that they are a certain metaphorical creek without a suitable means of propulsion, they're probably sequestered somewhere drawing straws to find out who goes to prison.

On a more serious note though, they are clearly running scared when they can't even muster a few of the old spinmeister "everything is double plus good" comments without fear of digging themselves deeper into the hole. I note that they've taken to using more obscure corners of the internet media to pimp the PR spin, and that it's still mostly falling on infertile ground.

[OF1975]

Originally Posted by The Other Steve

Under more normal circumstances I would say you are being paranoid, but given the current situation, and it's lies upon deceits upon half truths, fair 'nuff. Personally I doubt there's any jiggery pokery going on behind the scenes, but with all that's gone before, who can tell ?

w/r/t to the deafening silence, I am taking this as a fantastic sign of progress. Phorm and all who sail in her have realised that they are a certain metaphorical creek without a suitable means of propulsion, they're probably sequestered somewhere drawing straws to find out who goes to prison.

On a more serious note though, they are clearly running scared when they can't even muster a few of the old spinmeister "everything is double plus good" comments without fear of digging themselves deeper into the hole. I note that they've taken to using more obscure corners of the internet media to pimp the PR spin, and that it's still mostly falling on infertile ground.

Yeah I realise what I said can seem to be entering into tin-foil hat territory but given past goings on it is a concern. You have an interesting way of looking at the silence from VM and Phorm PR. I sure hope you are right.

[mark777]

Off topic, but a staggering example of government idiocy regarding privacy.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05...s_tax_details/

"The Italian tax office published names, addresses, dates of birth, declared income, and tax paid. Which sounds to us like enough information to engage in a serious bit of identity theft."

Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff

OK I have just written an article for CF (published later today when Mick logs on) with regards to my legal analysis. I have now finished the paper so anyone who can't wait for the article to go live, feel free to download it here.

I have proof read it about 20 times so I am hoping I didn't miss any errors, but if I did, I apologise in advance

Alexander Hanff

This has now been published...

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/article/...es-in-20062007

Great work Alexander.

[davews]

Just to say hello. I have been monitoring this forum for a few weeks and following last night's plea have now registered. Following the whole saga with interest and help where I can with the technical issues which I think I understand quite well. Mixed views on the privacy aspects but strong views on the redirection and cookie implementation. You will have seen posts from me on BadPhorm, the BT Beta forums and newsgroups and elsewhere.

I was also a 'victim' of last years sysip.net trials and what it meant to me at the time. I have no wish to go through all that again.

Dave

[Florence]

Hi Dave and to cable forum glad to have more help in the phight to not conphorm to phorm.

Ihave actually left VM due to their silence on phorm and now with a smaller ISP on ADSL where I know they will not use phorm they already have a poll on their personal forums where customers have voted they would leave if phorm was to be introduced mind the owner also said he would never implement it.

I hang around cableforum from habit and because I can still help at times with the fight the more that are wise to the phorm/webwise connections and what it implies the better.

[BetBlowWhistler]

@Alexander, great job on the dissertation. I think I just heard a final nail going in to the coffin. This document needs a widespread distribution!

Small point - second to last line on p9 you write "or implied negatived." Should that read 'negatively ? I should be a proof reader :P

Anyhow, very well done

[Florence]

Originally Posted by BetBlowWhistler

@Alexander, great job on the dissertation. I think I just heard a final nail going in to the coffin. This document needs a widespread distribution!

Small point - second to last line on p9 you write "or implied negatived." Should that read 'negatively ? I should be a proof reader :P

Anyhow, very well done

I have to agree with you this is a great job Alexander has spent hours helping us with this issue now is the time for us to fight back with this as our flag.

We could send emails to all ISPs directors requesting their views on this report and if they would deploy phorm/webwise on their customers.

I have already tried two just waiting for feedback.

[The Other Steve]

http://www.out-law.com/page-9090

About what you'd expect given Pinsent Masons LLP's relationship with BT, basically says that, yes, ISPs implementing Phorm are probably breaking tons of laws, but that's OK, where's the harm ?

Seriously, that's what it says. Can't comment further now, blood boiling.

[Deko]

Will this story get picked up new the news wires ? now its a CF article ?

[3x2]

Will there be a RIPA prosecution? I can't see it. The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) is more likely to say that there is no harm caused to anyone.

Ah so that's how the law works now

[mattyh]

Yep... if you only break the law a little bit (or you're lining the pockets of someone high up perhaps?), you're ok

New to the forum after lurking for a while

I've posted on the BT forum a few times, to no avail so thought I'd come here to help with the fight!

my thanks to Alexander and everyone else that has contributed so far, excellent work

[Florence]

After reading that link I come to the conclusion they are total pricks..

By Struan Robertson, Editor of OUT-LAW.COM. These are the personal views of the author and do not necessarily represent the views of Pinsent Masons LLP.

If these are personal views of this person why post as editor of Out law.com then I ask what right he has to post them as law?

His title is editor when he posts as editor it isnt personal views plus that website has become a joke we should not support it since the views are possibly biased. Possibly the type of website that can be bought out for the gold coin to post good about anything bad.

Further to this lin the website is registered to

Registrant:
Pinsent Masons
ATTN: OUT-LAW.COM
c/o Network Solutions
P.O. Box 447
Herndon, VA. 20172-0447

Do I see another yankie doodle that said take all typed by this editor with a pinch of salt.

---------- Post added at 14:14 ---------- Previous post was at 14:12 ----------

Hello mattyh to the fight the ranks are growing we should be able to rock the boat harder and some phormites will fall into the sea.

[The Other Steve]

We should take some encouragement from the article at least, since the very lawyers that have possibly been involved with advising BT on this issue have now publicly given their opinion that laws are being broken.

That might turn out not to be such a smart move on their part if it turns out that the CPS take a different view, or if someone can come up with a convincing legal argument showing that harm has in fact taken place, like, oh, I don't know, say a mass violation of Human Rights laws ? I note they take the Phorm line on the whole "implied consent" thing to, which is legally ridiculous as far as I can see (IANAL), viz google indexes pages, it doesn't intercept the user's interactions with a particular page, comparing the two seems fallacious in the extreme to me, but hey, IANA highly paid L for BT.

Interesting to see the DMA whinge and the Out-Law Out-Right admission of illegality turn up so close together. A different tack for the PR pixies, methinks, but perhaps not a wise one, sympathy for the DMA is low to non existent outside of that industry, for a start.

Fight desperate rearguard actions much PhormUKFlyingPRMonkeys ? You are so transparent I could use you as a component in a greenhouse, and you are still messing it up. No performance bonus for you lot this year.