Government & Post Election Discussion

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Because the only person who hasn't made the effort to check if the statement is correct is you! Took me a few seconds to find this article.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39916367

I'm not saying that Labour should spend this amount on the NHS nor am I arguing whether the party's sums add up. I'm just pointing out that they have said they will spend more on it if elected.

That's the latest election you have linked to. I was referring to 2010, when Labour appeared not to have a clue as to how to deal with the state of the economy.

I accept that they are saying differently now, but the economy is in rather better shape now than it was in 2010. Had Labour succeeded in getting a further crack at governing the country then, the economy would be in a parlous state, people would be poorer and the NHS would be teetering on the brink of collapse. Another IMF bailout would have been highly likely, with much worse austerity than the coalition or the present government have imposed.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

I'm quite happy to criticise the current administration and I think Hammond would be a liability running a cake stand in a church bazaar let alone the treasury. That some think that Corbyn's rabble could do a better job just defies belief.

But I'm sure those supporters will be quite able to pay their mortgages with a 10% bank rate rather than the current 0.5%

What he said.

But let's continue to pretend that you said the Tories are perfect and have never done anything wrong or made any mistakes because that gets us out of a hole having to deny Corbyn's cronies are anything other than nasty, inept Marxists who'd ruin the UK just like they did in the 1970s.

---------- Post added at 16:29 ---------- Previous post was at 16:28 ----------

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

That's the latest election you have linked to. I was referring to 2010, when Labour appeared not to have a clue as to how to deal with the state of the economy.

I accept that they are saying differently now, but the economy is in rather better shape now than it was in 2010. Had Labour succeeded in getting a further crack at governing the country then, the economy would be in a parlous state, people would be poorer and the NHS would be teetering on the brink of collapse. Another IMF bailout would have been highly likely, with much worse austerity than the coalition or the present government have imposed.

Some of us knew what you meant.

Ask them about Labour's U turns and they shut up...

---------- Post added at 16:33 ---------- Previous post was at 16:29 ----------

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

It was Labour who said it would be 'reckless' to spend more money on the NHS.

That doesn't detract from the fact that they would waste money on all the wrong things and bankrupt the economy if they returned to power.

Unsurprisingly, they've forgotten that as quickly as they forgot his cynical duplicitous pledge to pay off student debts and all the other pre-election lies not to mention their utter lack of a credible policy on the EU. Mind you we can conflate all that with saying the Tories are perfect can't we...

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

I'm quite happy to criticise the current administration and I think Hammond would be a liability running a cake stand in a church bazaar let alone the treasury. That some think that Corbyn's rabble could do a better job just defies belief.

But I'm sure those supporters will be quite able to pay their mortgages with a 10% bank rate rather than the current 0.5%

Originally Posted by Osem

What he said.

But let's continue to pretend that you said the Tories are perfect and have never done anything wrong or made any mistakes because that gets us out of a hole having to deny Corbyn's cronies are anything other than nasty, inept Marxists who'd ruin the UK just like they did in the 1970s.

But denphone, or Maggy, did not say Labour would do better. In fact they also criticised Labour. It was a criticism of the Tories management of the NHS which showed no positive remarks about Labour.

But as usual it cannot be accepted. Whenever criticism of the Governments comes up it will quickly move it onto Labour even if the poster hasn't supported them. I haven't voted Labour in 10+ years but there is no point criticising the government on here because all it gets is sarcastic comments about Corbyn - who I didn't even want to win the leadership election.

[denphone]

Theresa May considers move for Boris Johnson in cabinet reshuffle.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...inet-reshuffle

[richard s]

Stuff him in a Cabinet and lock the door and through away the key.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by richard s

Stuff him in a Cabinet and lock the door and through away the key.

lol, but a cabinet wouldn't be large enough to fit his ego in.

On a more serious note, it looks like BoJo could do well out of a reshuffle though the article later states he would prefer to stay in his existing role.

David Davis's allies fear that he risks being "marginalised" if Boris Johnson is handed a new "super-charged" Brexit role in a forthcoming Cabinet reshuffle. The Prime Minister is said to be considering moving Mr Johnson, the Foreign Secretary, in a "renewal" reshuffle which could see her axe as many as five ministers. Mr Johnson could be asked to replace Greg Clark, the Business Secretary, with the portfolio significantly bolstered to give him more direct "ownership" of Brexit.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...johnson-given/

---------- Post added at 10:24 ---------- Previous post was at 09:47 ----------

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Had Labour succeeded in getting a further crack at governing the country then, the economy would be in a parlous state, people would be poorer and the NHS would be teetering on the brink of collapse. Another IMF bailout would have been highly likely, with much worse austerity than the coalition or the present government have imposed.

This makes George Osborne's Project Fear statements look mild. The fact is, we simply don't know how well the economy would have performed under a Labour Government.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

This makeds George Osborne's Project Fear statements look mild. The fact is, we simply don't know how well the economy would have performed under a Labour Government.

Remembering their disarray at the time of the 2010 election, I think we could all hazard a pretty good guess. Statements made at the time said it all.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Remembering their disarray at the time of the 2010 election, I think we could all hazard a pretty good guess. Statements made at the time said it all.

Yes it all makes project fear look mild...

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Damien

But denphone, or Maggy, did not say Labour would do better. In fact they also criticised Labour. It was a criticism of the Tories management of the NHS which showed no positive remarks about Labour.

But as usual it cannot be accepted. Whenever criticism of the Governments comes up it will quickly move it onto Labour even if the poster hasn't supported them. I haven't voted Labour in 10+ years but there is no point criticising the government on here because all it gets is sarcastic comments about Corbyn - who I didn't even want to win the leadership election.

Agreed. A constructive Conservative supporter should surely welcome discussion of the Government's handling of the NHS so it can improve and stay in power. It's just point-scoring to carp on about Corbyn all the time when he's not the topic and particularly when people like denphone are not advocating him.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Agreed. A constructive Conservative supporter should surely welcome discussion of the Government's handling of the NHS so it can improve and stay in power. It's just point-scoring to carp on about Corbyn all the time when he's not the topic and particularly when people like denphone are not advocating him.

The reason people keep carping on about Corbyn is that he keeps criticising from the sidelines when he knows full well he couldn't do any better. In fact, he could not do anywhere as well as this Government is doing.

He has gone along with Miliband's plan of 'weaponising' the NHS without having any plans of his own, apart from tipping a shedload of money into it, which of course will have consequences.

Considering the huge problems besetting the NHS, the Government is at least attempting to tackle it with limited resources and in a sustainable way. If anyone thinks these problems can be overturned in a day with a soundbite, they are seriously mistaken. This is going to take a lot of time.

I think this sums up the NHS (and many other large scale issues, such as immigration, disability benefits, climate change, budget deficit/debt, etc.).



We want a quick, simple answer to very complex problems, but get annoyed/dissatisfied when this isn’t delivered, and change those delivering any changes for those who promise a ‘magic bean’ fix, thus prolonging the problem.

Please note I am not specifying any particular political party - they are all guilty to one extent or the other, but we, as an electorate, are also to blame, because we drive these behaviours (supported by the 24x7 news cycle, which lives to shock/inflame viewers, because this gives higher viewing/click figures).

If we want a better government/country, we need to be better citizens - learn more, make informed decisions, try to understand things are complex/difficult, don’t demand ‘magic bean’/instant solutions, and think what is best for our country/the world/others, not just for ‘us’.

<polemic over>

[denphone]

A good coherent reasoned post Hugh but sadly l think you will be hitting a brick wall with that reasoned rational thinking.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by denphone

A good coherent reasoned post Hugh but sadly l think you will be hitting a brick wall with that reasoned rational thinking.

The pair of you could get a room somewhere [preferably somewhere really high up ] and discus every one else's failings .

[denphone]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

The pair of you could get a room somewhere [preferably somewhere really high up ] and discus every one else's failings .

l myself have many failings and l am not afraid to admit it.

[Mr K]

The public still don't want to deal with the issue that they'll have to pay more for heath care. This Govt. has now been around 8 years and they've been happy to let the NHS decay until the public accept a magic private insurance solution (more money for their city buddies). Except it isn't a solution, if there are no staff left and the poorest can't afford it.