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Old 19-01-2022, 21:23   #1426
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by pip08456 View Post
Would that be because Omicron is more transmissive than any other variant so far even to those already vaccinated and even boosted?
Indeed. Their flawed strategy was entirely based on believing the virus was a ďonce and doneĒ. Waning immunity from vaccines and previous infection isnít uniquely an Omicron feature it was seen with Beta (in clinical trials) and delta in the real world. Omicron just shot holes in it in a way even the most dubious spinning of statistics canít salvage the idea that Sweden got anything from it but dead Swedes.
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Old 19-01-2022, 21:30   #1427
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Indeed. Their flawed strategy was entirely based on believing the virus was a ďonce and doneĒ. Waning immunity from vaccines and previous infection isnít uniquely an Omicron feature it was seen with Beta (in clinical trials) and delta in the real world. Omicron just shot holes in it in a way even the most dubious spinning of statistics canít salvage the idea that Sweden got anything from it but dead Swedes.
So the Swedes have the highest death rate in Europe because of their actions? That would be the obvious result of their "flawed stratergy".
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Old 19-01-2022, 21:47   #1428
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Re: Coronavirus

I still find it staggering that people think you can stop a virus. Yes, you can slow it down, but that's not quite the same thing. Canute is outside for these people.
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Old 19-01-2022, 22:03   #1429
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by pip08456 View Post
So the Swedes have the highest death rate in Europe because of their actions? That would be the obvious result of their "flawed stratergy".
It would be obvious that the strategy was bad if they had the worst death rate. It wouldn’t necessarily follow that the strategy was good if that honour fell to someone else.

Two or more countries could have bad Covid policies, with the outcome varying based on a number of factors. General health of the population, availability of healthcare at the point of infection, what treatments were available, vaccines, which vaccines.

---------- Post added at 22:03 ---------- Previous post was at 21:50 ----------

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I still find it staggering that people think you can stop a virus. Yes, you can slow it down, but that's not quite the same thing. Canute is outside for these people.
Smallpox? And well on the way with polio? SARS? MERS? It’s certainly possible but requires an extent of collective effort that will never be seen when some can profiteer in the chaos.

Although rehashing that debate is of little value.
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Old 19-01-2022, 23:23   #1430
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Re: Coronavirus

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If you've been working at home successfully for 2 years and you're conversant with the right to flexible working laws, then it doesn't ��
Aside from the fact you clearly understood what was meant by the post, the "flexible working laws" only allow you to make a request, they dont mean a company has to grant it (as many in people in my company have found out).

If you're wondering, I am classed as "Decentralised", which means I WFH permanantly, regardless of any covid measures.

---------- Post added at 23:23 ---------- Previous post was at 23:16 ----------

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Smallpox?
Yes, afaik, thats the only virus we have ever eradicated, and that took many hundreds of years.

Quote:
Inoculation for smallpox appears to have started in China around the 1500s.
Europe adopted this practice from Asia in the first half of the 18th century.
In 1796 Edward Jenner introduced the modern smallpox vaccine.
It was declared as eradicated in 1980.
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Old 19-01-2022, 23:27   #1431
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
It would be obvious that the strategy was bad if they had the worst death rate. It wouldnít necessarily follow that the strategy was good if that honour fell to someone else.

Two or more countries could have bad Covid policies, with the outcome varying based on a number of factors. General health of the population, availability of healthcare at the point of infection, what treatments were available, vaccines, which vaccines.

---------- Post added at 22:03 ---------- Previous post was at 21:50 ----------



Smallpox? And well on the way with polio? SARS? MERS? Itís certainly possible but requires an extent of collective effort that will never be seen when some can profiteer in the chaos.

Although rehashing that debate is of little value.
Let's just take Smallpox, the first vaccine was produced in 1796. It took until 1978 for it to be eradicated. Just under 200 yrs to eradicate. The 1st, 2nd and 3rd generation vaccines are from the original though the production process is different in each case.

Heck, let's add polio.

Quote:
Use of the oral polio vaccine was discontinued in the UK in 2004 and the US in 2000, and the UN agency advises that the use of the oral vaccine should be discontinued after polio is judged to be eradicated because of the risk of vaccine-derived outbreaks.
Source

Quote:
Despite the progress achieved since 1988, as long as a single child remains infected with poliovirus, children in all countries are at risk of contracting the disease. The poliovirus can easily be imported into a polio-free country and can spread rapidly amongst unimmunized populations. Failure to eradicate polio could result in as many as 200 000 new cases every year, within 10 years, all over the world.
Source

But do feel free to carry on.
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Old 19-01-2022, 23:53   #1432
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Re: Coronavirus

So it’s possible. Thanks for sourcing all that and saving me the hassle, pip.

Last edited by jfman; 19-01-2022 at 23:59.
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Old 20-01-2022, 02:20   #1433
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
So itís possible..
Yes, much like travelling to the moon - its possible, but doesnt happen often.
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Old 20-01-2022, 07:46   #1434
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
And obviously the most important factor being those that made the conscious choice to not mitigate spread and infect people in the hope of building immunity. That makes it really difficult for the propaganda machine to make favourable comparisons.
That was a perfectly sensible proposition before we had the vaccine, jfman. But as pointed out by pip, lockdowns only slow it down.

Interesting that your solution would take centuries to achieve. Not very practical, is it? Still, it would achieve the lockdown you crave for the rest of your life!
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Last edited by OLD BOY; 20-01-2022 at 07:51.
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Old 20-01-2022, 08:45   #1435
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Re: Coronavirus

The Telegraph reports that Sajid Javid has admitted that Covid death data is skewed because many people die from conditions unrelated to the virus after testing positive. ONS data shows a big discrepancy between weekly death registrations and the figures on government dashboards.

Nothing we didn't know already
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Old 20-01-2022, 08:56   #1436
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by bigsinky View Post
The Telegraph reports that Sajid Javid has admitted that Covid death data is skewed because many people die from conditions unrelated to the virus after testing positive. ONS data shows a big discrepancy between weekly death registrations and the figures on government dashboards.

Nothing we didn't know already
We've known that since the start though which is why 'excess deaths' was used in the initial wave to judge between nations by some.

As long as the measurement is consistent it's still useful as a way to benchmark what's happening.

---------- Post added at 08:56 ---------- Previous post was at 08:50 ----------

Quote:
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Let's just take Smallpox, the first vaccine was produced in 1796. It took until 1978 for it to be eradicated. Just under 200 yrs to eradicate. The 1st, 2nd and 3rd generation vaccines are from the original though the production process is different in each case.
The other thing with smallpox is that it's much easier to spot and isolate when it becomes transmissible. You do not have asymptomatic smallpox (as far as I know).

So when they identified a case of Smallpox the WHO would take a break from their touring schedule and swoop into the area to do 'ring-vaccination' around the suspected case. Basically starving it of further carriers. Every time another case occurred they too would be isolated and people in that community vaccinated again until it had nowhere left to go. No more Smallpox.
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Old 20-01-2022, 09:09   #1437
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigsinky View Post
The Telegraph reports that Sajid Javid has admitted that Covid death data is skewed because many people die from conditions unrelated to the virus after testing positive. ONS data shows a big discrepancy between weekly death registrations and the figures on government dashboards.

Nothing we didn't know already
Yes skewed from 17,000 as per last nights news.
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Old 20-01-2022, 09:22   #1438
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by Paul View Post
Yes, afaik, thats the only virus we have ever eradicated, and that took many hundreds of years.
SARS-CoV-1 is also gone, and that was done in less than two years just with masks and social distancing.

I've seen a report that it doesn't even exist in labs.
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Old 20-01-2022, 10:00   #1439
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by nffc View Post
I still find it staggering that people think you can stop a virus. Yes, you can slow it down, but that's not quite the same thing. Canute is outside for these people.
Don't forget that Canute was trying to prove to his people that he couldn't stop the tide not that he could.
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Old 20-01-2022, 11:56   #1440
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by Damien View Post
We've known that since the start though which is why 'excess deaths' was used in the initial wave to judge between nations by some.

As long as the measurement is consistent it's still useful as a way to benchmark what's happening.
Itís still an over-simplification. Excess deaths are also caused by people not getting diagnosed and/or treated in time as a result of prioritising Covid patients.

It shouldnít be a problem working out who has actually been admitted and/or died of coronavirus, but recording has been shambolic because no country seems to have taken a sensible and pragmatic means of recording. Even we cannot differentiate which patients are admitted because of or die because of Covid.
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