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[Updated] New petrol & diesel car sales banned from 2030
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Old 18-11-2020, 21:48   #511
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Re: [Updated] New petrol & diesel car sales banned from 2030

All this means is car manufacturers will be heavily marketing all the countries that don’t ban the internal combustion engine.

Much in the same way the Tobacco industry continues to thrive and marketed around most of the world were there aren’t any restrictions
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Old 18-11-2020, 21:48   #512
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Re: [Updated] New petrol & diesel car sales banned from 2030

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Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
New R&D in petrol cars is now going to end. In time, as demand for petrol reduces, fewer petrol stations will remain open, and those that do will increase their prices because of the increase in costs with reduced sales.
The energy suppliers can cope with the varying supply of wind power because there is surplus supply from elsewhere, so talk of "the current system can cope" is misleading.

Add in the effect of moving away from household gas central heating and you have further demands on the electricity system.
Going to be fun when there is a power cut in an area.
Cycling? How does that work in bad weather? News reports on cycling only seem to occur in fine weather. Try doing it in heavy wind, rain, snow, or even sunshine.
Too many gimmick based policies.
Global warming is a reality and needs to be addressed, doing so is not a gimmick or fad it's a necessary human and economic reality.
I don't think that the timescales under consideration seem unreasonable and with global efforts focused on battery development, peaks and troughs in power generation can be ironed out.
Well done to BoJo.
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Old 18-11-2020, 21:49   #513
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Re: [Updated] New petrol & diesel car sales banned from 2030

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Don't worry old chap Boris knows what he is doing, honest,. have faith....
Princess Nut Nuts is a good influence and our prime policy maker.
Meat eating will also be outlawed by 2033.
You been drinking again?
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Old 18-11-2020, 21:54   #514
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Re: [Updated] New petrol & diesel car sales banned from 2030

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Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
All this means is car manufacturers will be heavily marketing all the countries that don’t ban the internal combustion engine.

Much in the same way the Tobacco industry continues to thrive and marketed around most of the world were there aren’t any restrictions
That's not an argument against these initiatives, though.

Furthermore, car manufacturers are wedded to profits, not a means of propulsion. If electric cars become cheaper globally through initiatives like these, then they will displace internal combustion engines in some countries where such initiatives are not taking place.
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Old 18-11-2020, 22:02   #515
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Re: [Updated] New petrol & diesel car sales banned from 2030

Yeah, the car industry isn't especially wedded to the future of the oil companies. A national transition to a new engine is an opportunity for them to sell more cars. These companies have been preparing for this for a while with a lot - if not most - already selling electric versions of some of their most popular models.

There is still another 10 years to go as well which is plenty of time for them to shift their focus.
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Old 18-11-2020, 22:11   #516
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Re: [Updated] New petrol & diesel car sales banned from 2030

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
That's not an argument against these initiatives, though.

Furthermore, car manufacturers are wedded to profits, not a means of propulsion. If electric cars become cheaper globally through initiatives like these, then they will displace internal combustion engines in some countries where such initiatives are not taking place.
How will they become magically cheaper?
Rare earth elements are rare.

Battery raw materials could face a supply crunch by the mid-2020s. Link
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The experts have also calculated that based on the latest battery technology (80 per cent nickel, 10 per cent cobalt, 10 per cent manganese), UK demand for EV batteries will require almost the total amount of neodymium produced globally each year, three quarter’s of the world’s lithium, and “at least half” of the world’s copper.
The letter, authored by a team of eight scientists headed by the Natural History Museum’s head of earth sciences, professor Richard Herrington, explains that to replace the UK’s cars with EVs will require 207,900 tonnes of cobalt, 264,600 tonnes of lithium carbonate and “at least” 7,200 tonnes of neodymium and dysprosium, as well as 2,362,500 tonnes of copper.
And that's just to supply the UK.
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Old 18-11-2020, 22:19   #517
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Re: [Updated] New petrol & diesel car sales banned from 2030

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Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
How will they become magically cheaper?
Rare earth elements are rare.

Battery raw materials could face a supply crunch by the mid-2020s. Link
And that's just to supply the UK.
There’s clearly a role for hydrogen fuel cells in cars. Hydrogen production is part of the strategy announced today.
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Old 18-11-2020, 22:20   #518
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Re: [Updated] New petrol & diesel car sales banned from 2030

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Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
How will they become magically cheaper?
Rare earth elements are rare.

Battery raw materials could face a supply crunch by the mid-2020s. Link
And that's just to supply the UK.
So what's your solution to climate change and our ever dwindling fossil fuel supply? Get a bike?
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Old 18-11-2020, 22:26   #519
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Re: [Updated] New petrol & diesel car sales banned from 2030

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Originally Posted by Chris View Post
There’s clearly a role for hydrogen fuel cells in cars. Hydrogen production is part of the strategy announced today.
And where will this hydrogen come from?
They still rely on rare earth metals for the electric motors.
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Old 18-11-2020, 22:34   #520
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Re: [Updated] New petrol & diesel car sales banned from 2030

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And where will this hydrogen come from?
They still rely on rare earth metals for the electric motors.
We have oceans of hydrogen.
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Old 18-11-2020, 22:34   #521
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Re: [Updated] New petrol & diesel car sales banned from 2030

Of course, producing Hydrogen from those 'oceans' requires electricity in the first place.

Also, despite what some believe, burning hydrogen does produce emissions.

When burned in normal air, you get small amounts of Nitrogen Oxides, and of course, lots of water vapour.

What will be the effect of tons and tons of water vapour being added to the atmosphere I wonder (its a potent 'greenhouse gas').
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Old 18-11-2020, 22:36   #522
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Re: [Updated] New petrol & diesel car sales banned from 2030

More rain to provide water to create hydrogen from?
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Old 18-11-2020, 22:36   #523
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Re: [Updated] New petrol & diesel car sales banned from 2030

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More rain to provide water to create hydrogen from?
.. and more floods ...
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Old 18-11-2020, 22:50   #524
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Re: [Updated] New petrol & diesel car sales banned from 2030

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Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
How will they become magically cheaper?
Rare earth elements are rare.

Battery raw materials could face a supply crunch by the mid-2020s. Link
And that's just to supply the UK.
It was reported that there were enough resources to replace the current global internal combustion engine fleet just about.

So given that replacing that fleet would take decades it’s not really an issue initially.

But roll on many decades.

Lithium-ion batteries recycling rate from used batteries to new is between 70-80%. That means diminishing returns of around 25%.

So, much like “fossil”* fuels, lithium is a finite resource and will run out eventually, we’ll be dead by then, but my Grandchildren will be buzzing around in their classic 2019 Mustang that i will have left them.

* if you believe oil to be a fossil fuel, for which there is no evidence.
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Old 18-11-2020, 23:09   #525
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Re: [Updated] New petrol & diesel car sales banned from 2030

If you produce hydrogen by electrolysis of water, first of all you can do it with excess electricity production from the grid, given the massive increase in offshore wind that’s being proposed. If you split water into H and O2 then all your fuel cell does is recombine it. There is no net increase in water in the environment because you’re just putting back what you took out. Any chemical impurities can be filtered or chemically altered in the vehicle exhaust system just as is the case now.

Besides all this, there’s no need to worry so much about lithium because we’re not very far away from a practical lithium-sulphur battery that has the potential to double EV range - or half the size of the battery required.

I think we’re going to see a future of mixed approaches to providing electric power to vehicles. There’s room in it for hydrogen and batteries.
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