24-02-2018, 13:21
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#2161
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Perfect Soldier
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Worthing West Sussex
Age: 66
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Posts: 10,995
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Re: Brexit discussion
Leaving the EU does NOT mean we won't be trading with the EU so your supposition that suddenly we'll have 40% less trade is just not valid.
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History is much like an endless waltz: The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.
However history will change with my coronation - Mariemaia Khushrenada
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24-02-2018, 14:06
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#2162
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cf.addict
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 124
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Re: Brexit discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy
Leaving the EU does NOT mean we won't be trading with the EU so your supposition that suddenly we'll have 40% less trade is just not valid.
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I never said that. I said you will never replace the 40+% trade. Different. We will of course trade, but on different conditions, with barriers in place that make it very difficult and much more expensive (tariffs, border costs, extra administatrion costs etc). The supposition is that we can replace this with free trade from other countries in a land far, far away.
But I go back to my main point - what is happening now and something has to happen quickly. March 2019 to come out with a last minute deal is no good to business. It will takes years to recover from that.
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24-02-2018, 21:26
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#2163
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Ice Cold
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Leeds, Seacroft
Age: 46
Services: XL TV
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Posts: 1,552
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Re: Brexit discussion
Germany - I mean the EU just wants to control everything that happens especially with those in the EU. It's the 21st century we need to move on from the restrictions of paying into an old boys club the EU needs to open up to the world for trade and support all not just those that have a few quid to throw around.
We talk about humanitarian crisis in certain countries then you look at the top players in the EU says it all really.
We will be much better off out and stop listening to the crap that comes across from over the border.
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24-02-2018, 23:45
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#2164
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Rise above the players
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wokingham
Services: 2 V6 boxes with 360 software, Now, ITVX, Amazon, Netflix, Lionsgate+, Apple+, Disney+, Paramount +,
Posts: 14,589
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Re: Brexit discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bircho
If only it was that simple. All 27 EU Governments have to agree to the deal. It only takes one to veto and we are stuck out. 40+% of our trade will never, ever be replaced with trade deals with Argentina, the Cayman Islands or wherever you are wanting to strike deals with.
You don't shut out your biggest customer - it's simple business and economics. Our business is currently trying to work on its five year forecasts - we cannot get past next year at the moment. We are seeing businesses refusing to commit to anything past the next year. Yesterday, I had the unpleasant task of making 9 people redundant as a result. I have another 10 to follow next week. That is is just me - I have colleague who are telling me similar situations. These are high quality, highly paid jobs. So yeah, they may be able to find jobs picking fruit or whatever but it is not quite the same.
So if you were one of those 27 Governments and someone came to you and said we would like frictionless trade on motor vehicles because its suits us both - if you are in the Czech Republic where all your cars are made either there or in Germany would you say yeah lets go for that. But we get through that so we move on to dairy products and we say we don't want to trade in that because we want to protect our own fathers - the French Government says well sorry - you can't have the cars then.
And so it goes on and on and on.
I think some people really need to wake up and take the caffine smelling test. The EU have been consistent - you can't have your cake and eat it. We do need them more than they need us - and no matter how much you convince yourself otherwise by saying it over and over again - when you look at the cold bare facts, when you look at people being put out of work because of the uncertainly, when you look at what is happening away from the rhetoric and bull that comes out of those who will benefit from watering down of regulation, employment rights and everything else, then you realise this is real and real people's lifes are being affected.
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My God, Bircho, how on Earth, as a businessman, can you not see beyond this blinkered view?
You talk about Argentina and the Caymen Islands! What about the US, India, China, Australia and the other big players?
Take your blinkers off and look at the opportunities!
That's what businessmen/women do, right?
And by the way, those other EU countries want an agreement with the UK, too. Don't get sucked into Barnier's rhetoric!
Last edited by OLD BOY; 24-02-2018 at 23:49.
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25-02-2018, 07:42
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#2165
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cf.addict
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 124
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Re: Brexit discussion
I also said some other country in a land far far away. But go on then, I'll bite. You tell me, and those people now being put out of work, how logistically deals with US, China, India and that economic powerhouse Australia will replace the deals we currently have in the next couple of years or so. And be realistic and take out the theoretical claptrap because that is all we have had for the last 2 years and we are still no further on.
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25-02-2018, 09:51
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#2166
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,231
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Re: Brexit discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
My God, Bircho, how on Earth, as a businessman, can you not see beyond this blinkered view?
You talk about Argentina and the Caymen Islands! What about the US, India, China, Australia and the other big players?
Take your blinkers off and look at the opportunities!
That's what businessmen/women do, right?
And by the way, those other EU countries want an agreement with the UK, too. Don't get sucked into Barnier's rhetoric!
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Business people know that Brexit just adds to costs and red tape. The countries you mention like China, US and India are the epitome of protectionism. Good luck any country signing a free trade deal with those three, it won't happen. Owning an airline operating in the US? Forget it, US shareholders have to control the company. Building a car factory in China? Foreign companies have to set up a joint venture with a local company; imported cars have massive import taxes on them.
---------- Post added at 09:51 ---------- Previous post was at 09:47 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
And by the way, those other EU countries want an agreement with the UK, too. Don't get sucked into Barnier's rhetoric!
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Spain wants an agreement with the UK - joint management of Gibraltar’s airport. No wonder the residents of Gibraltar voted to remain.
Quote:
Spain sets Brexit challenge with Gibraltar demands
Last year the Spanish government won a formal veto over the provisions of any future EU-UK deal that would apply to the territory. Since Britain insists that Gibraltar must leave the bloc on the same terms as the UK, the use of such a veto could derail a broader Brexit deal.
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https://www.ft.com/content/907fb2d8-...6-4a6390addb44
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25-02-2018, 11:56
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#2167
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Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,118
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Re: Brexit discussion
Spain go jump off The Rock, in Gibraltar. If it thinks it can take or seize power of another countries port. NO DEAL.
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25-02-2018, 14:27
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#2168
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Rise above the players
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wokingham
Services: 2 V6 boxes with 360 software, Now, ITVX, Amazon, Netflix, Lionsgate+, Apple+, Disney+, Paramount +,
Posts: 14,589
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Re: Brexit discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bircho
I also said some other country in a land far far away. But go on then, I'll bite. You tell me, and those people now being put out of work, how logistically deals with US, China, India and that economic powerhouse Australia will replace the deals we currently have in the next couple of years or so. And be realistic and take out the theoretical claptrap because that is all we have had for the last 2 years and we are still no further on.
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You can call the government's objectives claptrap if you want to, but you are using the same old wrecking arguments we have been hearing for the last two years from remainers.
You may not believe that the government will get a deal with the EU and you point out that all has been words or 'claptrap' as you put it. And yet, within a year, you will be proved wrong. The UK will get a good deal (it's in the interests of both sides) and on top of that, we will be free to negotiate our own trade deals.
So not only will we still have pretty much the same ability to export to the EU without tariffs and with an agreement on the customs arrangements (outside the existing Customs Union), but the trade deals we want with other countries will be on top of that.
The leaders of some prominent EU countries have been voicing concern about Barnier's hard line approach, and as we near the deadline, he will have some climbing down to do from his high perch.
---------- Post added at 14:27 ---------- Previous post was at 14:22 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
Business people know that Brexit just adds to costs and red tape.
The countries you mention like China, US and India are the epitome of protectionism. Good luck any country signing a free trade deal with those three, it won't happen. Owning an airline operating in the US? Forget it, US shareholders have to control the company. Building a car factory in China? Foreign companies have to set up a joint venture with a local company; imported cars have massive import taxes on them.
---------- Post added at 09:51 ---------- Previous post was at 09:47 ----------
Spain wants an agreement with the UK - joint management of Gibraltar’s airport. No wonder the residents of Gibraltar voted to remain.
https://www.ft.com/content/907fb2d8-...6-4a6390addb44
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And how is that, Andrew? They don't know what the deal is yet!
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25-02-2018, 15:19
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#2169
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cf.addict
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 124
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Re: Brexit discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
You can call the government's objectives claptrap if you want to, but you are using the same old wrecking arguments we have been hearing for the last two years from remainers.
You may not believe that the government will get a deal with the EU and you point out that all has been words or 'claptrap' as you put it. And yet, within a year, you will be proved wrong. The UK will get a good deal (it's in the interests of both sides) and on top of that, we will be free to negotiate our own trade deals.
So not only will we still have pretty much the same ability to export to the EU without tariffs and with an agreement on the customs arrangements (outside the existing Customs Union), but the trade deals we want with other countries will be on top of that.
The leaders of some prominent EU countries have been voicing concern about Barnier's hard line approach, and as we near the deadline, he will have some climbing down to do from his high perch.
---------- Post added at 14:27 ---------- Previous post was at 14:22 ----------
And how is that, Andrew? They don't know what the deal is yet!
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Bookmarked.
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27-02-2018, 10:47
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#2170
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,231
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Re: Brexit discussion
Nails it! We'll be back on worse terms I suspect.
Quote:
Former Fox adviser mocks ‘packet of crisps’ Brexit plan
Martin Donnelly, former permanent secretary at the Department for International Trade, is planning to give his own speech on Wednesday claiming there is a “marked lack of evidence” that leaving the single market and customs union will lead to greater trade with third-party countries.Speaking on the BBC Today programme on Tuesday, Sir Martin compared the situation to “rejecting a three-course meal now in favour of the promise of a packet of crisps later”.The former mandarin will use his speech to predict that the UK will seek to return to “full membership of the EU single market” in due course, given the “negative consequences” of leaving.
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https://www.ft.com/content/0faac65e-...a-4574d7dabfb6
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27-02-2018, 13:26
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#2171
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Rise above the players
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wokingham
Services: 2 V6 boxes with 360 software, Now, ITVX, Amazon, Netflix, Lionsgate+, Apple+, Disney+, Paramount +,
Posts: 14,589
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Re: Brexit discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
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I suppose that kind of talk appeals to a certain mindset. It would be good to have a more serious discussion.
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27-02-2018, 13:34
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#2172
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,231
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Re: Brexit discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
I suppose that kind of talk appeals to a certain mindset. It would be good to have a more serious discussion.
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Repeating the names of protectionist countries like China, the USA and India is not a serious debate.
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27-02-2018, 13:39
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#2173
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Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,118
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Re: Brexit discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
Repeating the names of protectionist countries like China, the USA and India is not a serious debate.
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Neither is rehashing the same old crap & fear mongering BS from the Anti-Brexit media.
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27-02-2018, 13:41
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#2174
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Jarrow Tyne & Wear
Services: V.I.P 120 tivo and v+
Posts: 5,793
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Re: Brexit discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick
Neither is rehashing the same old crap & fear mongering BS from the Anti-Brexit media.
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of course the Brextremist media never tell lies
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27-02-2018, 13:43
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#2175
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Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,118
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Re: Brexit discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave42
of course the Brextremist media never tell lies
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I wouldn’t know I don’t read/watch it/them.
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