PM Boris forms a government

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Damien

Sure but then I am wondering if No 10s thinking here is that by reducing their Parliamentary options they can dare them into calling that VoNC and an election. An election in these circumstances suits Boris Johnson perfectly IMO.

---------- Post added at 11:42 ---------- Previous post was at 11:28 ----------

I wish people would be proportional in their outrage. Twitter/Reddit is just a no-go area now with people intentionally misunderstanding what the Queen's role is in all this.

I think Boris Johnson is behaving badly here but the Queen isn't being asked to suspend democracy.

Boris isn't behaving badly at all. He is honoring the vote of the electorate in the referendum.

Parliament would have been suspended anyway for the party conference season, so this fuss is only about a few extra days.

Originally Posted by Damien

Sure but then I am wondering if No 10s thinking here is that by reducing their Parliamentary options they can dare them into calling that VoNC and an election. An election in these circumstances suits Boris Johnson perfectly IMO.

---------- Post added at 11:42 ---------- Previous post was at 11:28 ----------

I wish people would be proportional in their outrage. Twitter/Reddit is just a no-go area now with people intentionally misunderstanding what the Queen's role is in all this.

I think Boris Johnson is behaving badly here but the Queen isn't being asked to suspend democracy.

Is he though? A Queen’s Speech after a session lasting, say, six months, would be an abuse of process, but the current session is now more than 2 years old, and apparently the oldest in centuries. He is entirely within his rights to use his power to advise the Queen in order to control parliamentary business. That’s what governments do and it’s an essential part of the balance of power that emerged after the English Civil War period. Parliament is sovereign; its legislation (or respect for convention) permits the government to function. A monarch with powers constitutionally limited was agreed in 1660 to be preferable to a “Lord Protector” whose powers and influence had no such agreed limit. Well, here we are in 2020 and the monarch is exercising her powers in accordance with the longstanding will of parliament. So far as I can see, Boris’ behaviour here is no worse than the way MPs took over government business in the Commons before the summer and announced they would do again next month.

---------- Post added at 12:19 ---------- Previous post was at 12:16 ----------

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Boris isn't behaving badly at all. He is honoring the vote of the electorate in the referendum.

Parliament would have been suspended anyway for the party conference season, so this fuss is only about a few extra days.

To play devil’s advocate for a moment, it isn’t just about a couple of days. It’s about the ability to kill off anything the opposition might have tried to set in train at the beginning of September, and also to fill as many of the days after 14 October as possible with the consequences of the Queen’s Speech. On paper perhaps only a couple of sitting days are lost but the effect on any opposition plans for mischief is rather more serious.

Parliament could have voted, and likely would have, to sit in the recess so it is actually quite a long period. Also, remember we don't know exactly when he is suspending it.

This is a good example of it: https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/...71170923651078

Useful comparison of previous lengths of prorogation. 20 days previous recent highest. Boris wants 35

I find the phrase “recent highest” in that tweet potentially quite weaselly. What’s the actual highest I wonder? And the highest in modern times? (which is arguably from the very early 20th century, though I’d accept post-1945).

Originally Posted by Chris

Is he though? A Queen’s Speech after a session lasting, say, six months, would be an abuse of process, but the current session is now more than 2 years old, and apparently the oldest in centuries. He is entirely within his rights to use his power to advise the Queen in order to control parliamentary business. That’s what governments do and it’s an essential part of the balance of power that emerged after the English Civil War period. Parliament is sovereign; its legislation (or respect for convention) permits the government to function. A monarch with powers constitutionally limited was agreed in 1660 to be preferable to a “Lord Protector” whose powers and influence had no such agreed limit. Well, here we are in 2020 and the monarch is exercising her powers in accordance with the longstanding will of parliament. So far as I can see, Boris’ behaviour here is no worse than the way MPs took over government business in the Commons before the summer and announced they would do again next month

He is within his rights to do so. I am not especially outraged by the whole thing because if you have a tool at your disposal then you might as well use it. I wasn't outraged by Parliament looking to take control of the order paper either. Really the only time I felt someone behaved really badly is when the Government 'accidentally' broke pairing for a Labour MP on maternity leave in a close vote.

I just think it's a cynical ploy and Parliament needs to see what it can do to respond. The rest of it is just whining at the referee.

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BTW So many of these problems are because of the Fixed Term Parliament act. That needs to go ASAP.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Damien

Parliament could have voted, and likely would have, to sit in the recess so it is actually quite a long period. Also, remember we don't know exactly when he is suspending it.

This is a good example of it: https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/...71170923651078

To invest in our NHS, deal with violent crime and cut the cost of living we need a Queen’s Speech.

https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/sta...68356906344449

Originally Posted by pip08456

https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/sta...68356906344449

Did you mean to respond to me, or at least that particular quote?

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Damien

Did you mean to respond to me, or at least that particular quote?

Either. You choose.

The Queen has done it. Parliament to be prorogued no earlier than 9 September and no later than 12 September, to reconvene on 14 October.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Chris

The Queen has done it. Parliament to be prorogued no earlier than 9 September and no later than 12 September, to reconvene on 14 October.

It's good to see the country moving forward ,stagnation had set in.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Boris isn't behaving badly at all. He is honoring the vote of the electorate in the referendum.

Parliament would have been suspended anyway for the party conference season, so this fuss is only about a few extra days.

Not how it works.

Prorogation is very different from the conference recess, as during the conference recess, MPs can still meet in committee, they can demand government papers, they can put down questions to ministers.

There are a lot of things that can be done in recess that can't be done in prorogation.

---------- Post added at 15:41 ---------- Previous post was at 15:38 ----------

Originally Posted by papa smurf

It's good to see the country moving forward ,stagnation had set in.

Ah yes, the old

"Democratic - using Parliamentary procedure and conventions to suspend Parliament to prevent discussion and oversight of Government work

Anti-Democratic - using Parliamentary procedure and conventions to hold Government to account"

approach...

Must be a new definition of "moving forward" I hadn't seen before - not allowing Parliament to do anything for five weeks...

[denphone]

Ruth Davidson set to quit as Scottish Conservative leader.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/17...enior-sources/

According to the Scottish Sun, Davidson has found herself "increasingly at odds" with Prime Minister Boris Johnson.

The senior Tory source said: "Ruth's been talking to senior party figures in the Conservatives for the last few weeks, both in Scotland and down south.

Another source claimed that Davidson will step down from the leadership position for two reasons: "family and Boris"

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by denphone

Ruth Davidson set to quit as Scottish Conservative leader.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/17...enior-sources/

One of the Conservative Party's best assets and responsible for turning around the Party in Scotland. Will she really be #BrexitCollateralDamage

[denphone]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

One of the Conservative Party's best assets and responsible for turning around the Party in Scotland. Will she really be #BrexitCollateralDamage

Exactly and they will find it extremely hard to replace her in Scotland.

[jfman]

Well, in some respects Brexit was always going to have to win another referendum or win a general election. So this isn't a surprise really, only that Boris is embracing it - although I advocated that strategy for Brexiteers some time ago.