ntl bottom in USwitch poll.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Stuart C

Depends how the sample used in that survey is made up. It could be that more than 90% of ntl's customers are happy with their survey. It's just that they picked a goup of 16,000 people where 81% were unhappy.

Equally, it could be that less than 81% overall are happy.

Either way, ntl came last (as usual)

Coincidence?

Absolutely not.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Neil

Either way, ntl came last (as usual)

Coincidence?

Absolutely not.

Well, yes, really.. If it's possible the survey is wrong, then it is not valid.

Originally Posted by Neil

For those people who think that even if ntl came top for customer satisfaction that we wouldn't believe it-unfortunately we'll never be able to put this to the test because "ntl" & "top of customer satisfaction survey" are never going to be said in the same breath.
Fact.

End of.

No Neil, Your Opinion, end of.

So the bottom 5 are all seperated by just 2%, and BT beat ntl by just 1% (which could be anything between 1 and about 300 people at the extreme). 81% is not good, but then neither is 82% or 83% - the bottom five are all bad and could have ended up in any order depending on just a few hundred replies, and the difference between first and last is just 11%. Poor results for ntl (and BT) but over 4 in 5 customers being satisfied is hardly the damnation that some bitter posters would have you believe.

[Chrysalis]

perhaps people think all these polls pick the same bucnh of people each time?

dont you stop to think if you add up all the pollsters from all the surveys it probably translates to a reasonable % of the customer base to mean something. By discrediting the poll you are in denial and the first step to solve a problem is accepting it.

I would have a lot more respect for ntl if after this poll they held their head up high and said we are doing X and X to resolve this and to improve customer satisfaction but of course they are planning to increase customer count per employee yet again and next years polls will in all likelyhood show lower then 81% satisfaction.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Paul M

No Neil, Your Opinion, end of.

No, not my opinion at all.

Please show me where ntl have come top for customer satisfaction (tip-you won't be able to)

It's not about opinions, it's about hard facts & ntl have not come top in satisfaction surveys.

Originally Posted by Paul M

So the bottom 5 are all seperated by just 2%, and BT beat ntl by just 1% (which could be anything between 1 and about 300 people at the extreme). 81% is not good, but then neither is 82% or 83% - the bottom five are all bad and could have ended up in any order depending on just a few hundred replies, and the difference between first and last is just 11%. Poor results for ntl (and BT) but over 4 in 5 customers being satisfied is hardly the damnation that some bitter posters would have you believe.

They still came bottom, so if as head honcho you are proud of coming bottom, then good for you.

Originally Posted by Neil

No, not my opinion at all.

Yes it is, and I think everyone knows your bitter views and opinions of ntl.

Originally Posted by Neil

Please show me where ntl have come top for customer satisfaction (tip-you won't be able to)

It's not about opinions, it's about hard facts & ntl have not come top in satisfaction surveys.

Completely irrelevant, your post was about the future, not past surveys.

unfortunately we'll never be able to put this to the test because "ntl" & "top of customer satisfaction survey" are never going to be said in the same breath.

Unless you have mastered time travel you cannot state facts about the future, only opinions.

[Chrysalis]

Paul why are you struggling to believe the results.

What are your reasons for thinking ntl are not a poor provider.

A isp should be measured by its ability to fix things when they go wrong since that is what normally causes a customer to lose satisfaction and to ring up.

Do you think ntl solve problems fast through the normal channels? and people dont have poor service for months?

Do you think they never have billing problems?

Do you think people are happy paying £50 for a modem upgrade when they are already paying for rental?

Do you think everyone on 10meg gets full speed and is happy?

Customer satisfaction is about these type of things.

Exactly where did I say any of those things ?

[JoshGrey]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

19% is far from insignificant, if you think almost 1 in 5 is insignificant then I would hate to be a customer of your business JoshGrey.

That is not what I said Chrysalis. In fact I said that this minority IS significant. Perhaps you misread my comment.

---------- Post added at 14:35 ---------- Previous post was at 14:08 ----------

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

Paul why are you struggling to believe the results.

What are your reasons for thinking ntl are not a poor provider.

A isp should be measured by its ability to fix things when they go wrong since that is what normally causes a customer to lose satisfaction and to ring up.

Do you think ntl solve problems fast through the normal channels? and people dont have poor service for months?

Do you think they never have billing problems?

Do you think people are happy paying £50 for a modem upgrade when they are already paying for rental?

Do you think everyone on 10meg gets full speed and is happy?

Customer satisfaction is about these type of things.

I think the point is that 81% (approximately) are happy or at least not unhappy (perhaps indifferent) with the situations/customer service that you describe above. That has to be at least part of the message of the survey. The other message is that 19% are not happy with the situations/customer service described above. If you're in that 19% you will of course feel vindicated by ntl's poor rating...if you're not in that 19% you're going to wonder why the headlines are saying a company that seems fine to you is c**p. Both sides are right from their perception of this relationship. There's not much point trying to convince each other otherwise.

If you're happy then you might want to encourage ntl to spread that type of service...if you're unhappy (and you have a choice) then you should go somewhere that makes you happy and leave ntl behind completely.

Somewhere there's probably the 5% or so of unhappy PlusNet customers slating the "ridiculous survey" for putting PlusNet first!!

[Griffin]

Originally Posted by JoshGrey

If you're happy then you might want to encourage ntl to spread that type of service...if you're unhappy (and you have a choice) then you should go somewhere that makes you happy and leave ntl behind completely.

Somewhere there's probably the 5% or so of unhappy PlusNet customers slating the "ridiculous survey" for putting PlusNet first!!

Think it may be higher than 5% of plusnet customers that are unhappy, try looking at their forums. I know quite a few people personally who ditched Plusnet over some botch up that happened just recently. In my opinion a more realistic guide to how good or bad an isp is would be to look & that isp's forum.

[Bob]

Another query... out of the 16,000 how many we actually customers to the respective companies? Because it's going to have a big impact on those percentages

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by JoshGrey

That is not what I said Chrysalis. In fact I said that this minority IS significant. Perhaps you misread my comment.

---------- Post added at 14:35 ---------- Previous post was at 14:08 ----------


I think the point is that 81% (approximately) are happy or at least not unhappy (perhaps indifferent) with the situations/customer service that you describe above. That has to be at least part of the message of the survey. The other message is that 19% are not happy with the situations/customer service described above. If you're in that 19% you will of course feel vindicated by ntl's poor rating...if you're not in that 19% you're going to wonder why the headlines are saying a company that seems fine to you is c**p. Both sides are right from their perception of this relationship. There's not much point trying to convince each other otherwise.

If you're happy then you might want to encourage ntl to spread that type of service...if you're unhappy (and you have a choice) then you should go somewhere that makes you happy and leave ntl behind completely.

Somewhere there's probably the 5% or so of unhappy PlusNet customers slating the "ridiculous survey" for putting PlusNet first!!

You still missing the point. NTL can be percieved as a good isp if you are lucky to not have a fault, lets face it is good luck.

What makes them bad is how they handle things when they go wrong, over subscription of areas causing slow broadband speeds is their own fault. If they invested in network upgrades when a user reports poor speed and give them a schedule for ubr fix then they would be a better isp, instead the customer gets fed rubbish that their hardware is bad. Similiar things go on with billing etc. do you read time and time again on this forum that users need the mods of this very forum to get problems resolved for them? or are these matters insignificant?

You said 19% isnt insignificant but this minority is eh? this minority is 19% which is it.

Paul I asked you some simple questions but you completely avoided them.

---------- Post added at 21:12 ---------- Previous post was at 21:07 ----------

Originally Posted by Griffin

Think it may be higher than 5% of plusnet customers that are unhappy, try looking at their forums. I know quite a few people personally who ditched Plusnet over some botch up that happened just recently. In my opinion a more realistic guide to how good or bad an isp is would be to look & that isp's forum.

Well plusnet run a refferal scheme so given that a big proportion of customers are probably paying very little for that service, also although I think they are a poor isp they can even send a rep to adslguide to discuss with customers and have a customer forum. Their call cantre is based in sheffield and not outsourced so their is a few subtle differences.

Ntl made a choice, you cant sit there cutting costs over a number of sustained years, keep sacking staff and outsource to india then expect to not have a hit on customer satisfaction. They should be taking on staff to keep up with the new customers they getting and thats just to keep service static instead of in decline. I would be interested to know if any of telewest core network will be decommissioned and peering reduced as part of cutting costs.

[JoshGrey]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

You still missing the point. NTL can be percieved as a good isp if you are lucky to not have a fault, lets face it is good luck.

What makes them bad is how they handle things when they go wrong, over subscription of areas causing slow broadband speeds is their own fault. If they invested in network upgrades when a user reports poor speed and give them a schedule for ubr fix then they would be a better isp, instead the customer gets fed rubbish that their hardware is bad. Similiar things go on with billing etc. do you read time and time again on this forum that users need the mods of this very forum to get problems resolved for them? or are these matters insignificant?

You said 19% isnt insignificant but this minority is eh? this minority is 19% which is it.

Ntl made a choice, you cant sit there cutting costs over a number of sustained years, keep sacking staff and outsource to india then expect to not have a hit on customer satisfaction. They should be taking on staff to keep up with the new customers they getting and thats just to keep service static instead of in decline. I would be interested to know if any of telewest core network will be decommissioned and peering reduced as part of cutting costs.

Hi Chrysalis.
I just want to be clear: 19% IS a minority AND it IS significant.

What you say about poor service from ntl might be true BUT if the survey is to be trusted/believed (and you accept that people will change if they are unhappy with a service) your statements about poor service only apply for the 19% minority or else it only applies enough for them to complain when asked. I think it's a little harsh to say that anyone who doesn't regard ntl as a poor isp or hasn't received poor service has been lucky - that refers to more than 80% of its customers. That's what your comments would imply and I don't think that's what you meant.

You're right that ntl made various decisions about how they run their business and eventually time will tell how successful that has been. If they made mistakes then all of their customers will leave (albeit eventually), they will go bust and no one will have to worry about their "poor service" any more

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

Paul I asked you some simple questions but you completely avoided them.

Rubbish. I implied the answers to them all in one go. It's funny how people 'imply' things with posts (when it suits) but then suddenly get an "implication block" when it doesn't.

Still, since your implication radar is broken - in order ;

1. I'm not, 2. My experience, plus my family and friends experiences, oh and a survey that says over 80% are satisfied. 3. Mostly. 4, 5 & 6. No.

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by JoshGrey

Hi Chrysalis.
I just want to be clear: 19% IS a minority AND it IS significant.

What you say about poor service from ntl might be true BUT if the survey is to be trusted/believed (and you accept that people will change if they are unhappy with a service) your statements about poor service only apply for the 19% minority or else it only applies enough for them to complain when asked. I think it's a little harsh to say that anyone who doesn't regard ntl as a poor isp or hasn't received poor service has been lucky - that refers to more than 80% of its customers. That's what your comments would imply and I don't think that's what you meant.

You're right that ntl made various decisions about how they run their business and eventually time will tell how successful that has been. If they made mistakes then all of their customers will leave (albeit eventually), they will go bust and no one will have to worry about their "poor service" any more

thanks understood now.