ntl bottom in USwitch poll.

[James Henry]

Originally Posted by jtwn

...bitter Thats what I think a couple are who have had a bit of a raw experience with ntl. The way some of you go, you make out they are the worst thing since unsliced bread.

So Plusnet comes on top? ....this is the ISP that cuts people off for bad mouthing its service no? No wonder theres few to bad mouth it! (well according to that survery ) So if we are going by that survey their customer service is better than average, what does that matter when the product is crap.

The product is fine for people who just like to surf though.. it's pants if you are a more advanced user yes, but for those who want some mail and web it's fine.

For those people CS is more important.

No bitterness here, I just don't understand why people are defending this company when year after year after year it goes through the cycle of being broadsided for its' poor customer service, billing, etc, then makes the same promises about how it's fixing them (Harmony comes to mind) then the next year it's same excrement different day, rinse and repeat.

That said as I've mentioned in this and other threads ntl are the Lidl of providers, cheap and mass market not high quality.

Will only get worse with the Carphone Warehouse deal as well Then everyone will be looking at how to cut costs and drop overheads more.

[Locky]

well i may take notice of this when uswitch.com provide beter isp than ntl and bt

Originally Posted by James Henry

It's what you imply.

No, it's how you decide to read it to suit your own view.

Originally Posted by James Henry

Ah sarcasm, always a good refuge when you don't actually have anything to back up what you are saying.

Ah yes, let's just look back at your previous post again shall we ;

Originally Posted by James Henry

Well if your service is fine all must be brilliant I guess

I think you make your own point nicely.

[James Henry]

Originally Posted by Paul M

No, it's how you decide to read it to suit your own view.

Ah yes, let's just look back at your previous post again shall we ;
I think you make your own point nicely.

Nit picking and pedanticism, the second place to hide when you can't back up your point

You've said nothing to debunk what I said regarding their appauling record as far as customer service goes, as proven by this site's existence, Watchdog, repeatedly coming last place in customer satisfaction surveys, the same promises year after year. I guess you can't debunk that as it's true.

Still if you can't pick holes in what I say best pick them in how I say it I guess.

I've pointed at a track record spanning years of irritated customers, all you've managed to do is say that your service is fine and that the poll is nonsense, so by extension ntl's service must be fine...

---------- Post added at 18:20 ---------- Previous post was at 18:16 ----------

Originally Posted by Locky

well i may take notice of this when uswitch.com provide beter isp than ntl and bt

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, they don't have to do things better than who they're criticising to have it. It's like you complaining your upstream rate is low compared to downstream, we aren't going to ignore you as you don't provide your own ISP with higher upstream.

U-Switch are a site that recommends suppliers and collects the commission, they don't run ISPs, gas companies, eleccy companies, telcos, etc. They probably do have on their books ISPs that are 'better' than ntl / BT at some things, though yes the fact that they get paid for recommending ISPs, ntl and BT not being two of them, does make you think. Can't see Plusnet on their either though!

Yougov, the people who did the poll, are a fairly accurate pollster company. Again though we don't know exactly what was in the poll or the full results, so we'll have to see what gems that tells us.

[James Henry]

Looking at the Independent news story http://news.independent.co.uk/busine...icle362442.ece regarding job cuts looks as though Telewest customers can kiss goodbye to their previously highly rated customer service as well.

Increase in outsourcing, which of course always does wonders for the quality of service.

I'm also speaking to a couple of people who are giving me some fairly entertaining stories about Telewest employees who would rather take redundancy than work for ntl (for real) and a Telewest bod complaining furiously about ntl's treatment of him and other staff so far.

Network engineers being rearranged from doing the preventative maintenance to becoming service techs, limits on time taken per service call being tightened up, more service calls booked a day.

CSRs being given more aggressive call handling targets, more strict management processes oh and of course the real gem that in a senior management organised morale boosting exercise as late as last week they were being told there were no plans to cut jobs...

So one company was repeatedly complimented on its' customer service and indeed service in general, the other repeatedly sledgehammered, and now the group has adopted the processes of the company that had the poorer service.

It's actually quite ironic really. The ntl methods probably cost less in the shorter term, however Telewest had higher customer penetration, lower churn and higher revenues considering their respective franchaise sizes and were more profitable.

Anyway I digress. If ntl have to wait until they get theri customer services sorted before Branson lets them use the Virgin name, well, I wouldn't count on seeing Virgin Cable any time soon. It's all about how much they can save, not what spending a little more might earn.

I'm aware that it's only some tech support that's in India, but it looks like it's just a matter of time before standard CS is at least in part on its' way.

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by Paul M

Yeah, another meaninless survey to keep the knockers happy

Me - still quite happy with my service.


(Just remember, this was a poll by uswitch, a site people visit when they are unhappy with their current supplier, hardly an unbiased view - a bit like doing a poll here really).

not a plausible argument tho is it.

your service is good so that means ntl must be an awesome provider right?

---------- Post added at 14:55 ---------- Previous post was at 14:50 ----------

Originally Posted by James Henry

It's what you imply. You are happy and your service is fine, the survey is meaningless. Therefore you are basing your opinion that the survey is meaningless on, I guess your service being fine, seeing as you presented no other explanation.



Until we know the exact methodology you're being prematurely dismissive. I'd quite like to see the methodology of it all though. Seems strange that ntl make a habit of finishing bottom in these surveys, doesn't it?



Ah sarcasm, always a good refuge when you don't actually have anything to back up what you are saying.

I look forward to seeing the exact methodology and results from this poll. Will be interesting and any bias is usually fairly easy to spot from such things. Personally I can't see why they'd pick on ntl and it can't be purely down to size of ISP else one much smaller than Plusnet would have won.

Perhaps you'd care to take a minute to check YouGov out, they appear fairly good at what they do, and starting to throw around blatantly biased polls wouldn't really help their reputation with regard to their core business: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YouGov

That withstanding I am, as always, happy to be proven wrong if it ends up being obvious that this was rigged to gain U-Switch revenue. Either way just doing and releasing the results of the poll would have drawn visitors to their site and therefore gained them revenue so why the need to rig it?

I've little doubt that U-Switch aren't whiter than white. They are after all a profit making business and not a charity. I'm just suggesting that when a company keeps managing to come last in polls and surveys and ends up on Britain's most watched consumer show due to the poor quality of the service it provides there might just be some basis in fact there, just maybe.

My turn to be sarcastic:
Wonder if this poll included Telewest seperately, seeing as Telewest finish significantly higher in these things that ntl usually. Seeing as there's obviously this huge conspiracy to paint ntl as being bad it must extend to Telewest and cable in general as well, surely.

Well we all know now, if ntl appears in bottom 3rd of survey, it must be a flawed survey

all of us with problems of our service cannot be telling the truth, we are all needles in a haystack the fact ntl retentions have to haggle with people is that a sign of a quality isp?

---------- Post added at 14:57 ---------- Previous post was at 14:55 ----------

Originally Posted by James Henry

Looking at the Independent news story http://news.independent.co.uk/busine...icle362442.ece regarding job cuts looks as though Telewest customers can kiss goodbye to their previously highly rated customer service as well.

Increase in outsourcing, which of course always does wonders for the quality of service.

I'm also speaking to a couple of people who are giving me some fairly entertaining stories about Telewest employees who would rather take redundancy than work for ntl (for real) and a Telewest bod complaining furiously about ntl's treatment of him and other staff so far.

Network engineers being rearranged from doing the preventative maintenance to becoming service techs, limits on time taken per service call being tightened up, more service calls booked a day.

CSRs being given more aggressive call handling targets, more strict management processes oh and of course the real gem that in a senior management organised morale boosting exercise as late as last week they were being told there were no plans to cut jobs...

So one company was repeatedly complimented on its' customer service and indeed service in general, the other repeatedly sledgehammered, and now the group has adopted the processes of the company that had the poorer service.

It's actually quite ironic really. The ntl methods probably cost less in the shorter term, however Telewest had higher customer penetration, lower churn and higher revenues considering their respective franchaise sizes and were more profitable.

Anyway I digress. If ntl have to wait until they get theri customer services sorted before Branson lets them use the Virgin name, well, I wouldn't count on seeing Virgin Cable any time soon. It's all about how much they can save, not what spending a little more might earn.

I'm aware that it's only some tech support that's in India, but it looks like it's just a matter of time before standard CS is at least in part on its' way.

I still see they fail to admit they have network capacity problems then, and wont admit their tv service in some areas is nothing short of shocking.

They cant fix a problem they wont admit to.

[JoshGrey]

Has anyone actually seen the survey results directly as opposed to the various media headlines...? I'd be interested in seeing exactly what the results were rather than the versions filtered to make an entertaining and provocative story.

I thought that I actually saw some real figures on the survey that suggested that BT, AOL and ntl had managed something like 75% or 85% percent approval/satisfaction and still they came "last". PlusNet came top I think with results in the 90s...if those numbers are anywhere near right then to be honest it occurs to me that those who say these results prove ntl is poor probably fall into the significant minority of 25-15% whilst those who defend ntl based on their experience probably fall in to the 75-85% thus maybe this survey actually reflects what we experience.

Perhaps the question that is really being asked or at least should be is should ntl be trying to get higher satisifaction results...some of the quoted ntl response to the survey seems to be "no"

BTW if I understand correctly PlusNet is a BB and phone provider whilst ntl offers that and tv as well is it possible that we're not comparing like-for-like...without seeing the real survey we only have the provocative media story to rely on.

Last point YouGov has built a reasonable reputation in surveying circles. It is a business like any other and in this case USwitch would want to achive certain goals but that does not automatically mean that YouGov compromised their integrity.

Just my two pennies worth...

Originally Posted by James Henry

Nit picking and pedanticism, the second place to hide when you can't back up your point
.
Still if you can't pick holes in what I say best pick them in how I say it I guess.

A phrase involving "pot, kettle & black" springs to mind.

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

your service is good so that means ntl must be an awesome provider right?

*sigh* whatever ...

Originally Posted by JoshGrey

Has anyone actually seen the survey results directly as opposed to the various media headlines...?

I thought that I actually saw some real figures on the survey that suggested that BT, AOL and ntl had managed something like 75% or 85% percent approval/satisfaction and still they came "last". PlusNet came top I think with results in the 90s...if those numbers are anywhere near right then to be honest it occurs to me that those who say these results prove ntl is poor probably fall into the significant minority of 25-15% whilst those who defend ntl based on their experience probably fall in to the 75-85% thus maybe this survey actually reflects what we experience.

No, I don't think anyone has seen them.

In fact the article says "YouGov found that BT, NTL and AOL - who between them account for half of all broadband subscribers in the UK - came bottom in seven out of nine categories between them". No mention of how many each came bottom in, but ntl are only mentioned once - "when it comes to overall customer satisfaction, NTL came bottom of the pile, closely followed by BT" - so BT obviously only just avoided coming last in that. BT also (apparently) did badly in the value for money category. Still, a few actual facts (or lack of them) never stop a good story eh

[James Henry]

The article seems to imply that ntl came bottom overall followed closely by BT. We'll see when we get the results for sure though.

Your spirited defense is entertaining debate though, so thanks for that

[JoshGrey]

At least now we have some figures to look at....http://www.cableforum.co.uk/article/...-yougov-survey

I'm still inclined to say that the numbers probably accurately reflect the ntl position - most people are satisfied but there is a sizable minority that aren't.

What's interesting is that on these figures Telewest was "3rd" on 89%" only 8% better than ntl...so will Telewest "pull" ntl/Telewest up or will ntl "push" ntl/Telewest down...? It's a rhetorical question before the various sides leap in....oh dear I can already hear the diatribes!!

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by James Henry

<snip>

ntl = the Lidl of internet, TV and phone. Cheap as you like and that's how they get the punters in, not quality

But judging by the Talk Talk and other related threads, that's exactly what a lot of ntl punters are - cheap.

[Neil]

ISPs by overall customer satisfaction.

1) PlusNet 92 per cent
2) Pipex 90 per cent
3) Telewest 89 per cent
4) Virgin.net 87 per cent
5) AOL 83 per cent
6) Tiscali 83 per cent
7) Wanadoo 83 per cent
8) BT 82 per cent
9) NTL 81 per cent.

Says it all really.

BTW...

For those people who think that even if ntl came top for customer satisfaction that we wouldn't believe it-unfortunately we'll never be able to put this to the test because "ntl" & "top of customer satisfaction survey" are never going to be said in the same breath.

Fact.

End of.

[DaggaDagga]

Perhaps every independent polling company is bribed by some unknown anti-NTL brigade. Yes, it's all a huge conspiracy - all the customers say NTL are brilliant, then they fiddle the results.

Either that, or NTL always comes bottom in every survey because they have the lowest customer satisfaction.

Hmmm I wonder which is the most likely?

[Chrysalis]

19% is far from insignificant, if you think almost 1 in 5 is insignificant then I would hate to be a customer of your business JoshGrey.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

19% is far from insignificant, if you think almost 1 in 5 is insignificant then I would hate to be a customer of your business JoshGrey.

Depends how the sample used in that survey is made up. It could be that more than 90% of ntl's customers are happy with their survey. It's just that they picked a goup of 16,000 people where 81% were unhappy.

Equally, it could be that less than 81% overall are happy.