Traffic Shaping - Page 3

Zee · 31-03-2006, 18:13

Would someone care to put this in idiot mode, i use the BitTorrent client uTorrent and the P2P app called Morpheus and have noticed slower downloads lately, what does this mean, NTL are starting to **** me off, when Be Unlimited goes live in my area, i'm moving ...

Frank · 31-03-2006, 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

ntl have updated the user policy with something that is going to happen, why do you think ntl have failed here?

Are you referring to the fact that this is in the user policy, and has not been communicated to each customer directly, such as a mail drop?

Okay. I think that ntl haven't communicated this properly because they have slipped this important change in without any kind of announcement. It now appears that customers are spending time trying to diagnose their connection problems because of a change that ntl have made and not communicated.

A change like this is important to announce in some way, especially after what happened last time in 2003, because it impacts customers. Because they are unaware that shaping is intentional, they are trying to fix what they think is a problem. That is not good customer service.

For the record, no I don't think that ntl should send an email to every single customer simply because this change doesn't impact all customers. Perhaps ntl's system should generate emails to particular customers when their traffic is being shaped? At the end of the day, ntl employ many communications people, and they should be able to figure the customer communication plan out for themselves. When I worked there, they didn't listen to me in terms of customer communication, and probably still don't listen to half their communications people.

The bottom line is that some kind of proactive communication should have occurred because the customer experience is affected and the customer has no idea why. Customer service 101.

Toto · 31-03-2006, 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil

Because (just like they did with 'The Cap'), they have changed the AUP & not told anyone.

They have just amended the AUP probably in the hope that no one would notice-if ntl have nothing to hide & are willing to stand tall behind their traffic shaping, then why not just come out & announce what they are doing?

No, instead they just change the AUP & hope no one will notice.

As Frank says, clearly they haven't learnt their lesson from last time.

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/article/...etwork-traffic

Or you could just have said "yes", exactly as I said it

---------- Post added at 17:47 ---------- Previous post was at 17:46 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank

Okay. I think that ntl haven't communicated this properly because they have slipped this important change in without any kind of announcement. It now appears that customers are spending time trying to diagnose their connection problems because of a change that ntl have made and not communicated.

A change like this is important to announce in some way, especially after what happened last time in 2003, because it impacts customers. Because they are unaware that shaping is intentional, they are trying to fix what they think is a problem. That is not good customer service.

For the record, no I don't think that ntl should send an email to every single customer simply because this change doesn't impact all customers. Perhaps ntl's system should generate emails to particular customers when their traffic is being shaped? At the end of the day, ntl employ many communications people, and they should be able to figure the customer communication plan out for themselves. When I worked there, they didn't listen to me in terms of customer communication, and probably still don't listen to half their communications people.

The bottom line is that some kind of proactive communication should have occurred because the customer experience is affected and the customer has no idea why. Customer service 101.

OK, then does cable forum know of the reasons why ntl have done this, has it been communicated to you guys?

Lemonzest · 31-03-2006, 18:55

WTF caps and shaping, sod P2P how will this affect games? and with the 10Mb/s Connection what am i now paying for? HTML and email? bugger that

Toto · 31-03-2006, 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lemonzest

WTF caps and shaping, sod P2P how will this affect games? and with the 10Mb/s Connection what am i now paying for? HTML and email? bugger that

Seems to suggest traffic intensive apps such as p2p, gaming should be ok, not sure what sort of traffic an online game can generate. Perhaps shaping could improve gaming at peak time??

jtwn · 31-03-2006, 19:02

Shaping can only improve gaming, that is if there was anything to improve on.

31-03-2006, 19:11

utorrent i say and use forced encryption just d/l iso

thingy 23 seeders at most,took 1 hour 2 minutes 690mb.Oh how good it is to hear the smiths again .I must d/l a dictionary soon.

bilal · 31-03-2006, 19:25

ive looked over the web but cant find a simple explanation of traffic shaping. From what ive understood it slows down the packets but im a bit confused. Could someone please explain in more detail

?

Also will using newsgroups be affected??
Good utorrent got protocol encryption recently, will make this basically useless for bittorrent (i think)

Ignition · 31-03-2006, 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtwn

How much you betting Neil? Because if its over nothing you are going to lose.

jtwn you don't put on a condom unless you're going to do something a bit naughty

I am staying out of this anyway, I know where these things are and how many there are, and all of it under the NDA inherited from when I left ntl so best I keep schtum

EDIT: I'm also not entirely innocent myself having fully implemented traffic shaping on one ISP and assisted with its' implementation on another.

EDIT2: While encryption might prevent the provider from seeing exactly what you're doing there aren't many things that open 50 connections instantly and none of them are legit.

kronas · 31-03-2006, 19:43

for those on torrents (azureus) look at this link

http://azureus.aelitis.com/wiki/inde...g#The_settings

as for the traffic shaping i got a letter in my last bill about a change in t&c's i never read it and not thought anything about it, maybe it was this change in the aup that was mentioned, unfortunately i dont have that letter anymore..

31-03-2006, 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignition

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtwn

How much you betting Neil? Because if its over nothing you are going to lose.

jtwn you don't put on a condom unless you're going to do something a bit naughty

I am staying out of this anyway, I know where these things are and how many there are, and all of it under the NDA inherited from when I left ntl so best I keep schtum

EDIT: I'm also not entirely innocent myself having fully implemented traffic shaping on one ISP and assisted with its' implementation on another.

EDIT2: While encryption might prevent the provider from seeing exactly what you're doing there aren't many things that open 50 connections instantly and none of them are legit.

Dont hold back m8 tell it how it is

Frank · 31-03-2006, 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

OK, then does cable forum know of the reasons why ntl have done this, has it been communicated to you guys?

Erm, I think that is the issue...it doesn't appear that anything to do with traffic shaping has been communicated. I would guess that the reason they have implemented traffic shaping is because p2p and newsgroup traffic have been affected service quality for other customers, so rather than increase capacity they have decided to limit these services.

---------- Post added at 14:10 ---------- Previous post was at 14:07 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignition

EDIT2: While encryption might prevent the provider from seeing exactly what you're doing there aren't many things that open 50 connections instantly and none of them are legit.

That may be the case, but if you limit connections then you will be affecting everything the customer is trying to do and not just the bandwidth intensive p2p applications. I'm not aware of any ISP that has done it like this for those very reasons.

---------- Post added at 14:12 ---------- Previous post was at 14:10 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilal

Good utorrent got protocol encryption recently, will make this basically useless for bittorrent (i think)

No, peers which support encryption will not be shaped because the packets will be encrypted. Peers which are not encrypted will be shaped as normal.

Ignition · 31-03-2006, 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank

That may be the case, but if you limit connections then you will be affecting everything the customer is trying to do and not just the bandwidth intensive p2p applications. I'm not aware of any ISP that has done it like this for those very reasons.

RCN

The clever kit will allow through connections it can identify protocol wise, and block the unknown encrypted ones.

dragon · 31-03-2006, 20:13

I just hope they give HTTP, Gaming, and VOIP traffic the highest prioarty.

Frank · 31-03-2006, 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignition

RCN

Heh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignition

The clever kit will allow through connections it can identify protocol wise, and block the unknown encrypted ones.

That is kinda lame though. Essentially what this does is only allow recognised packets at full speed, and everything else is slowed down. So much for net neutrality and being able to use your connection for whatever you want to use it. Personally, if I want to encrypt my packets, and encrypted packets get the lowest possible priority, then I would look elsewhere for an ISP