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Gaming PC advice please.
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Old 05-06-2020, 14:40   #1
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Gaming PC advice please.

Hi,

I'm currently playing Assassin's Creed Origins on my old PC on a 4K TV and it runs reasonably well, but it the CPU bottlenecks (and if it didn't, the GPU probably does anyway). I want to upgrade a bit for Assassin's Creed Odyssey and hopefully all I'll need is new CPU (and cooler), GPU and motherboard - oh, and a new copy of Win 10 I suppose). I'd appreciate any advice on parts that aren't mega expensive to upgrade to. This is my current setup:

Intel Core Skylake Processor i5-6500/3.2 GHz

Gigabyte GA-B150M-D3H Motherboard

MSI NVIDIA GTX 970 Gaming Twin Frozr

16GB Corsair CMK8GX4M2A2400C14 Vengeance LPX 8 DDR4 2400 MHz C14 XMP 2.0 High Performance

Intel 600p 256 GB M.2 NVMe PCIe Solid State Drive

EVGA 1000W PSU

I have a PS4 Pro but I prefer PC, so only really looking for advice/opinions on that.

Thanks.
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Old 05-06-2020, 14:47   #2
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Re: Gaming PC advice please.

I would be quite surprised if the CPU is the source of the bottleneck but maybe there is evidence of this on benchmarking websites.
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Old 05-06-2020, 14:50   #3
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Re: Gaming PC advice please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by downquark1 View Post
I would be quite surprised if the CPU is the source of the bottleneck but maybe there is evidence of this on benchmarking websites.
Not sure, but when the game is running, it uses 99-100% of CPU.
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Old 05-06-2020, 14:55   #4
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Re: Gaming PC advice please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderPants73 View Post
Not sure, but when the game is running, it uses 99-100% of CPU.
That is entirely normal. Games push the cpu to its limits beyond what is needed. I would look at cpu benchmarking sites. I imagine they will have Assassins Creed tests.
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Old 05-06-2020, 14:58   #5
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Re: Gaming PC advice please.

Possibly throttling back due to thermal problems? Have you checked your CPU temps?
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Old 05-06-2020, 17:17   #6
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Re: Gaming PC advice please.

Okay.
My computer is not very powerful.
I can only play new games at low quality.
I want to play at high quality.
Can ANYONE just recommend reasonably priced upgrades so that I may play games at a higher quality? I can achieve 1080p. I'd like to play at around 4k.

Last edited by ThunderPants73; 05-06-2020 at 17:26.
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Old 05-06-2020, 17:20   #7
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Re: Gaming PC advice please.

A fairly easy way to tell if the CPU is being bottlenecked is to drop the ingame resolution and compare your FPS before and after. If FPS stays the same then you're CPU bottlenecked, if lower res suddenly jumps FPS then it's your graphics card.

All that being said, it's a notoriously CPU hungry game so I'd suspect it really is CPU bottlenecking.


In that regard, the current state of play is that AMD's Ryzen processors are where it's at. They consistently beat out intel in performance and value in every category, with gaming being the one exception - but the margin is super thin.

Ryzen comes with more cores, more features, more longevity, you name it. The only catch is that Ryzen is particularly fond of fast RAM, so you wouldn't want to use the 2400Mhz RAM you've got now, you'd be better buying new RAM at 3200Mhz (for example).

Something like this is a reasonable place to start: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/8yW6b8

Feel free to swap in and out parts, the site will keep you right. If you can swing for the Ryzen 7 2700X and an after market CPU, that's a beefy 8 core (16 thread) processor that'll keep you going for many years. If that processor is too rich, drop down to the Ryzen 5 2600 - 6 cores, but still decent. You can skip the after-market cooling if you want, as the processors doe come with one, but it's really worth spending the £70-80 for a really good one.

As I said, you want fast RAM to make the most of these processors, so anything above 3000Mhz is a good start, with 3200Mhz being a fantastic place to be.

Motherboards are more of a preference to yourself, there are cheaper micro-ATX boards if you want, but the one I've picked there is a decent ATX board so you've got lots of expansions. I'd advise getting a board with 4 DIMM slots so you can throw more RAM in down the line without much fuss. 16GB is a solid amount to have now, if you do decide to swap some in or out, do make sure you do it in pairs.

Storage, case, etc. is personal perference.

PSU is personal preference, but don't cheap out on them as the cheap ones will die. Always go above the wattage you think you'll need and stick to decent brands - Corsair, BeQuiet, EVGA, etc. or you'll be swapping it out in 18 months time. PSUs are the first thing to die when you cheap out.

EDIT: If you're on a very tight budget, this is more in line: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/7Dwpk6 But if you can, spend the extra on the CPU to get that 2700X if you can.
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Old 05-06-2020, 17:33   #8
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Re: Gaming PC advice please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kushan View Post
A fairly easy way to tell if the CPU is being bottlenecked is to drop the ingame resolution and compare your FPS before and after. If FPS stays the same then you're CPU bottlenecked, if lower res suddenly jumps FPS then it's your graphics card.

All that being said, it's a notoriously CPU hungry game so I'd suspect it really is CPU bottlenecking.


In that regard, the current state of play is that AMD's Ryzen processors are where it's at. They consistently beat out intel in performance and value in every category, with gaming being the one exception - but the margin is super thin.

Ryzen comes with more cores, more features, more longevity, you name it. The only catch is that Ryzen is particularly fond of fast RAM, so you wouldn't want to use the 2400Mhz RAM you've got now, you'd be better buying new RAM at 3200Mhz (for example).

Something like this is a reasonable place to start: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/8yW6b8

Feel free to swap in and out parts, the site will keep you right. If you can swing for the Ryzen 7 2700X and an after market CPU, that's a beefy 8 core (16 thread) processor that'll keep you going for many years. If that processor is too rich, drop down to the Ryzen 5 2600 - 6 cores, but still decent. You can skip the after-market cooling if you want, as the processors doe come with one, but it's really worth spending the £70-80 for a really good one.

As I said, you want fast RAM to make the most of these processors, so anything above 3000Mhz is a good start, with 3200Mhz being a fantastic place to be.

Motherboards are more of a preference to yourself, there are cheaper micro-ATX boards if you want, but the one I've picked there is a decent ATX board so you've got lots of expansions. I'd advise getting a board with 4 DIMM slots so you can throw more RAM in down the line without much fuss. 16GB is a solid amount to have now, if you do decide to swap some in or out, do make sure you do it in pairs.

Storage, case, etc. is personal perference.

PSU is personal preference, but don't cheap out on them as the cheap ones will die. Always go above the wattage you think you'll need and stick to decent brands - Corsair, BeQuiet, EVGA, etc. or you'll be swapping it out in 18 months time. PSUs are the first thing to die when you cheap out.

EDIT: If you're on a very tight budget, this is more in line: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/7Dwpk6 But if you can, spend the extra on the CPU to get that 2700X if you can.
Absolutely brilliant, thank you so much. What GPU would you recommend? I can Google all day but nothing beatrs personal recommendations.

Last edited by ThunderPants73; 05-06-2020 at 17:36.
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Old 05-06-2020, 20:10   #9
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Re: Gaming PC advice please.

There's a thread on this game on the Steam Community and it seems that the cpu utilisation problem is a common theme and due to crap coding on Ubisoft's part. Some people with relatively high spec machines experiencing similar problems:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/58216...1607490353346/
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Old 08-06-2020, 16:19   #10
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Re: Gaming PC advice please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderPants73 View Post
I can Google all day but nothing beatrs personal recommendations.
I suggest you have a quick browse at these two pages because this choice is an important long term decision so you need to get it right.


https://www.tomshardware.com/uk/revi...uide,5844.html

https://www.tomshardware.com/uk/revi...rchy,4388.html

I have got a Geforce 1060 which is/was a great mid-range card a few years and still performs very well so if you could get your hands on one I think you would be very happy. If buying a graphics card was the only thing you needed and was going to solve your problem then from a cost point of view I would seriously consider this card.

If however you are looking at multiple upgrades and/or close to a new system then there is something to be said for futureproofing and getting the latest technology. Unless you have got cash to splash and want high end everything, if it were me, I would be looking at a 1660 or 2060, the different variants, benchmark results and cost. Start with the 1660 as a base and then budget permitting look at whether you want to spend an extra £30/£40 for x% performance increase.

As an example, according to that benchmark my 6gb 1060 (currently £190) scores 34% and the 1660 Super scores 48.3% for £260. I can tell you now that if I was buying a new card today that this is the sort of difference I would be looking at. 14% difference doesn't sound very much but it is nearly a 50% performance increase. My card scoring 34% sounds shit but I know how it performs. I play fps and everything runs on high or ultra as smooth as a babies bum looking very pretty so if my card scores 34% for that, I think I would be very happy with something scoring 48%.

Kush has talked about the other stuff. I think your ram and hdd are fine for the mo, the only other thing you would want to look at upgrading is your cpu but then that will probably mean a new motherboard which means you had might as well get a new pc with new everything. Some people see this as a fun challenge and want to have a crack at doing it themselves however if you would like it done for you I can't recommend Mesh Computers enough. Although everything is advertised as base spec they are not pre-builds like you would buy in shops. Everything is built to order and you can swap stuff around as much as you want. These guys use the best components and their customer service and tech support is superb. I have had 3 pcs from them over the last 20 years and I will continue buying from them as long as they are around. Take a look and see what you think.

Last edited by General Maximus; 08-06-2020 at 16:22.
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Old 08-06-2020, 16:34   #11
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Re: Gaming PC advice please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Maximus View Post
I suggest you have a quick browse at these two pages because this choice is an important long term decision so you need to get it right.


https://www.tomshardware.com/uk/revi...uide,5844.html

https://www.tomshardware.com/uk/revi...rchy,4388.html

I have got a Geforce 1060 which is/was a great mid-range card a few years and still performs very well so if you could get your hands on one I think you would be very happy. If buying a graphics card was the only thing you needed and was going to solve your problem then from a cost point of view I would seriously consider this card.

If however you are looking at multiple upgrades and/or close to a new system then there is something to be said for futureproofing and getting the latest technology. Unless you have got cash to splash and want high end everything, if it were me, I would be looking at a 1660 or 2060, the different variants, benchmark results and cost. Start with the 1660 as a base and then budget permitting look at whether you want to spend an extra £30/£40 for x% performance increase.

As an example, according to that benchmark my 6gb 1060 (currently £190) scores 34% and the 1660 Super scores 48.3% for £260. I can tell you now that if I was buying a new card today that this is the sort of difference I would be looking at. 14% difference doesn't sound very much but it is nearly a 50% performance increase. My card scoring 34% sounds shit but I know how it performs. I play fps and everything runs on high or ultra as smooth as a babies bum looking very pretty so if my card scores 34% for that, I think I would be very happy with something scoring 48%.

Kush has talked about the other stuff. I think your ram and hdd are fine for the mo, the only other thing you would want to look at upgrading is your cpu but then that will probably mean a new motherboard which means you had might as well get a new pc with new everything. Some people see this as a fun challenge and want to have a crack at doing it themselves however if you would like it done for you I can't recommend Mesh Computers enough. Although everything is advertised as base spec they are not pre-builds like you would buy in shops. Everything is built to order and you can swap stuff around as much as you want. These guys use the best components and their customer service and tech support is superb. I have had 3 pcs from them over the last 20 years and I will continue buying from them as long as they are around. Take a look and see what you think.
Thank you, building my own PC is fine, done it before. I do find the array of new GPUs quite bewildering. I don't mind spending 400-500 quid on a new card, not much more though, for although I love playing games on the PC, there aren't that many that pique my interest so they're a bit few and far-between. Last one was Witcher 3, which I loved. So if I can somehow strike a happy medium between decent graphics and money spent for the few games that I do play (also want to try Planet Zoo), I'll be happy.

---------- Post added at 15:34 ---------- Previous post was at 15:34 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Peter View Post
There's a thread on this game on the Steam Community and it seems that the cpu utilisation problem is a common theme and due to crap coding on Ubisoft's part. Some people with relatively high spec machines experiencing similar problems:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/58216...1607490353346/
Well that makes me feel a bit better!
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Old 08-06-2020, 17:37   #12
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Re: Gaming PC advice please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderPants73 View Post
Absolutely brilliant, thank you so much. What GPU would you recommend? I can Google all day but nothing beatrs personal recommendations.
Sorry, I didn't see this reply earlier.

GPU's are somewhat subjective, but the lay of the land has not changed much in recent years - Nvidia has the fastest stuff out there, but it comes at a premium and AMD competes on price. There are fanboys on both sides, my own personal preference is nvidia for sheer horsepower but I've ran AMD GPUs for years without issues. When I built my son's PC and one of my partner's (just this week), I put an AMD card in them as they're good value for money and neither of those people are particularly demanding.

So, where does that leave you? It depends (ha). Are you going to be going above 1080p any time soon? Do you have a 1440p monitor, or even 4K? What about refresh rate? Are you using a 144hz monitor, or sticking with 60hz?

Basically if you're aiming for 4k, you'll want to spend the extra on a very high-end card and it'll almost certainly be nvidia. If you're using 1440p at 120hz or greater, you'll want mid/high-to-high end card.

IF you're sticking to 1080p, even going above 60hz, well then you've got a lot of options.

So anyway, if you have the money to spare then the RTX 2080 Ti is the top pick, but at a grand it's not usually most people's first options. Make no mistake, 4k gaming needs something near this price range.


4K With bells and whistles attached: RTX 2080Ti (~£1,000).

There's no AMD alternative here.

If you're more around the 1440p mark, then the RTX 2070 Super is more in your ballpark (~£500). This will do some 4k at lower settings, but it's basically the 1440p card of choice, especially if you're going above 60FPS. RTX means you can do some decent ray-tracing stuff as well, which is going to become a big deal soon enough.

If you're at 1080p and sticking to that for the foreseeable future, then you've got more options to play with. The RTX 2060 is a solid 1080p card )~(£300) with the RTX features baked in, for a little ray-tracing goodness (though don't get too excited as your card will struggle with something line Minecraft RTX - but the subtle effects like with Battlefield V should be doable).

A halfway between the 2070 and the 2060 is the AMD RX 5700 (~£350). If we price £/frame, the RX 5700 is better value than both, but it only just about serves as a 1440p card, making it absolutely a solid 1080p choice with extra legroom for down the line, but you won't get your ray-tracing.

As we get into real budget territory, the 1660 Super can be had for £220. This is basically a 2060 without the RTX component, which isn't going to get that much use anyway so if you are going to spend ~£300 mark I'd consider going for the 5700 for the extra oomph, or dropping down to the 1660.

IF you really really want to save money, then an RX 590 will still do 1080p gaming extremely well for ~(£180).

I wouldn't go anywhere below that, though, not for a new machine and definitely not for the newer assassin's creed games.

If it was me, if I was about to fork out for a new graphics card today, I'd probably aim for the 2070 Super. It has some RTX goodness, it's pretty beefy and it'll run anything out there at 1440p no problem. Should last a good few years.

If you're not in a particular rush, there's new cards from both AMD and Nvidia due in September. Now they release new cards all the time, usually iterations on the current crop, but this year both are launching brand new architectures and the rumour is that AMD will actually be able to compete with Nvidia at the high end again - ultimately meaning the current cards will hopefully get much cheaper and the newer cards won't be commanding £1500+ again

But that's all rumour and even if there's a launch in September, I wouldn't expect to get stock before ~November time. But hey, you could build your new PC now and stick with your current graphics card until then. That's the beauty of PC gaming!
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Old 08-06-2020, 18:55   #13
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Re: Gaming PC advice please.

I built this system for a friend back in February. It's used for gaming at 2K and some 3D modelling. The parts came up to a shade over £1500

CPU: core i5 9600K
MB: ASRock Z390 Extreme4
Cooler: Noctua NH U-92S
RAM: Corsair Vengeance Black 32GB
GPU: MSI Geforce RTX2070 Super Gaming X
HDD1: Samsung 970 Evo NVME
HDD2: Samsung 860 Evo SATA III
PSU: EVGA Supernova 750W
CASE: Fractal Meshify White (bit small, had to relocate intake fan and one of the hard drive bays to install the GPU)

Sorry about the crap light in the pic

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Old 12-06-2020, 09:55   #14
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Re: Gaming PC advice please.

Thanks guys.

I need to find a GPU that is around the same length as my current. My GTX 970 is the longest card that fits in my case with only a couple of mm to spare, and I'm trying to stop the costs snowballing further by having to also buy another case. Looks like the only thing I won't be replacing at this rate is my 1000w PSU and drives!

I picked up Assassin's Creed Odyssey 2nd hand for my PS4 Pro, which I now realise was a mistake because the difference between that and ACO that I'm currently playing on my PC is astounding. My PC runs ACO a LOT better than the PS4P runs AC Odyssey, and having Googled it, I'm not surprised (although I love computers and consoles, I don't know that much about performance stuff so forgive me if I seem a little dumb).

I don't own a monitor, I game on a 58" 4K Panasonic, so I suppose the more pixels, the better! Thank you so much for all of your help, very thorough and articulate.

Last edited by ThunderPants73; 12-06-2020 at 10:14.
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Old 12-06-2020, 10:04   #15
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Re: Gaming PC advice please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderPants73 View Post
Thanks guys. Do GPUs come in different sizes? I mean, the different manufacturers that use, say, the Nvidia chips? My GTX 970 is the longest card that fits in my case, and I'm trying to stop the costs snowballing further by having to also buy another case. Looks like the only thing I won't be replacing at this rate is my 1000w PSU and drives!
Yes some take up one slots while others two. Some are longer at the back. The 970 didn't fit in some cases as I recall. I imagine the latest game cases are big enough to fit anything but you should look at the dimensions provided in the technical specifications to be sure, see if it is longer than the 970.
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