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[Updated] 8 MPs Resign from Labour Party
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Old 19-02-2019, 21:54   #706
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Re: [Updated] 7 MPs Resign from Labour Party

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
You appear to be saying it is one thing or the other - why can’t the Labour Party fight to end austerity without allowing rabid antisemitism to run riot amongst some of its more toxic members.

---------- Post added at 21:39 ---------- Previous post was at 21:38 ----------

or...

Letting a small minority behave this way allows others to use their behaviour as a weapon against Labour- stop it, and it can’t be used this way.

Simples...
I don’t believe it is simples. The Labour Party can’t resolve an issue in the heads of a tiny minority of members intent on sabotaging the 2017 Labour Party platform.

Easier for those members to remove themselves, stand for re-election and lose. Leaving the party to get on with it and news headlines to be found elsewhere.
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Old 19-02-2019, 22:00   #707
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Re: [Updated] 7 MPs Resign from Labour Party

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
I don’t believe it is simples. The Labour Party can’t resolve an issue in the heads of a tiny minority of members intent on sabotaging the 2017 Labour Party platform.

Easier for those members to remove themselves, stand for re-election and lose. Leaving the party to get on with it and news headlines to be found elsewhere.
Are you saying there isn’t a problem with antisemitism in the Labour Party, and it only exists in the minds of a tiny minority, and they need to leave the Party? You’re sounding like the twitter feed of Young Labour

The Deputy Leader of the Labour Party disagrees with you...
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Old 19-02-2019, 22:06   #708
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Re: [Updated] 7 MPs Resign from Labour Party

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
Are you saying there isn’t a problem with antisemitism in the Labour Party, and it only exists in the minds of a tiny minority, and they need to leave the Party? You’re sounding like the twitter feed of Young Labour

The Deputy Leader of the Labour Party disagrees with you...
Deputy Leader and Labour Friend of Israel, Tom Watson.

I’m simply curious why if Labour has an institutional antisemitism problem it wasn’t raised in the media from 1997-2015. Many candidates and local parties must surely be the very same people.
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Old 19-02-2019, 22:22   #709
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Re: [Updated] 7 MPs Resign from Labour Party

BREAKING: Enfield North MP Joan Ryan has resigned from the Labour Party to join the Independent Group, becoming the 8th Labour MP to do so, saying Jeremy Corbyn has allowed antisemitism to "infect" the party and accused him of "playing games with Brexit"
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Old 19-02-2019, 22:48   #710
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Re: [Updated] 7 MPs Resign from Labour Party

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BREAKING: Enfield North MP Joan Ryan has resigned from the Labour Party to join the Independent Group, becoming the 8th Labour MP to do so, saying Jeremy Corbyn has allowed antisemitism to "infect" the party and accused him of "playing games with Brexit"
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Old 19-02-2019, 23:10   #711
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Re: [Updated] 8 MPs Resign from Labour Party

Interesting article on why centrist parties don't do well in the UK. In essence, "the electorate skews to the left on economic issues and to the right on social issues." Nick Barlow.

Another interesting quote, this time from David Goodhart "What if a lot of people feel that there’s no point in voting because whoever you vote for you get the same old mix of economic liberalism and social liberalism – Margaret Thatcher tempered by Roy Jenkins. The two liberalisms – the 1960s (social) and 1980s (economic) – have dominated politics for a generation."
https://flipchartfairytales.wordpres...entrist-party/
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Old 20-02-2019, 06:52   #712
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Re: [Updated] 8 MPs Resign from Labour Party

People love saying Centerist parties don’t do well in the U.K. but I would argue that every party that has won a majority since 1997 were centerist. Blair and New Labour are also the definite example of centerism and Cameron at least sought out that mantle.

I’ve noticed a lot of Corbyn supporters mock New Labour, mock centre-left Labour, but for someone as ‘popular’ as Corbyn all he has done is lost an election to a unpopular Conservative party who ran on a manifesto attacking their own voters. Maybe they should at least win one election before lecturing the Blairites on how to do so....
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Old 20-02-2019, 07:31   #713
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Re: [Updated] 8 MPs Resign from Labour Party

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Originally Posted by Damien View Post
People love saying Centerist parties don’t do well in the U.K. but I would argue that every party that has won a majority since 1997 were centerist. Blair and New Labour are also the definite example of centerism and Cameron at least sought out that mantle.

I’ve noticed a lot of Corbyn supporters mock New Labour, mock centre-left Labour, but for someone as ‘popular’ as Corbyn all he has done is lost an election to a unpopular Conservative party who ran on a manifesto attacking their own voters. Maybe they should at least win one election before lecturing the Blairites on how to do so....
The last election was as much about an anti Tory vote, which benefitted Labour most.

Not sure we would get the same result next time round. People have woken up to the contradictions within Labour, with the Tories likely to be the main beneficiaries in our broken electoral system.
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Old 20-02-2019, 08:08   #714
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Re: [Updated] 7 MPs Resign from Labour Party

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Deputy Leader and Labour Friend of Israel, Tom Watson.

I’m simply curious why if Labour has an institutional antisemitism problem it wasn’t raised in the media from 1997-2015. Many candidates and local parties must surely be the very same people.
Actually, that’s not true.

Since JC was elected leader, there have been lots of new members who support him, plus Momentum - you know, like the people in Wavertree CLP who tried to deselect Luciana Berger, and were trying to do the same in Streatham (Owen Jones travelled there to gather support for this), and who raised a censure motion in Nottingham East, amongst many others.

To turn your question on it’s head, I’m simply curious why there has been an institutional antisemitism problem since late 2015? What major event happened in the Labour Party then?

Also, on your statement that the MPs should stand down as they were elected as Labour MPs, here’s JC’s thoughts on that from 2010 (you know, during the time he kept voting against the Labour Party Whip and Manifesto).
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Last edited by Hugh; 20-02-2019 at 10:00. Reason: Fix typo
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Old 20-02-2019, 08:50   #715
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Re: [Updated] 7 MPs Resign from Labour Party

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
Actually, that’s not true.

Since JC was elected leader, there have been lots of new members who support him, plus Momentum - you know, like the people in Wavertree CLP who tried to deselect Luciana Berger, and were trying to do the same in Streatham (Owen Jones travelled there to gather support for this), and who raised a censure motion in Nottingham East, amongst many others.

To turn your question on it’s head, I’m simply curious why there has been an institutional antisemitism problem since late 2015? What major event ha-opened in the Labour Party then?

Also, on your statement that the MPs should stand down as they were elected as Labour MPs, here’s JC’s thoughts on that from 2010 (you know, during the time he kept voting against the Labour Party Whip and Manifesto).
That tweet is awful, could never vote for him based on that alone
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Old 20-02-2019, 09:22   #716
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Re: [Updated] 8 MPs Resign from Labour Party

The thing is I've not actually been able to find any specific examples of the antisemitism in the Labour Party being mentioned all over the media.So I'm pretty sure you lot can point me in the right direction.
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Old 20-02-2019, 09:23   #717
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Re: [Updated] 7 MPs Resign from Labour Party

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick View Post
BREAKING: Enfield North MP Joan Ryan has resigned from the Labour Party to join the Independent Group, becoming the 8th Labour MP to do so, saying Jeremy Corbyn has allowed antisemitism to "infect" the party and accused him of "playing games with Brexit"
Is that the same joan ryan who is in labour friends of Israel and was caught discussing a million quid worth of trips for mps on camera with an Israeli official or another one? Not trying to defend the Jew haters but on the other hand am not to keen on this new party being a lobby group for Israeli interests either or of course I could be wrong about this, wouldn't be the first time
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Old 20-02-2019, 10:18   #718
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Re: [Updated] 8 MPs Resign from Labour Party

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Originally Posted by Maggy J View Post
The thing is I've not actually been able to find any specific examples of the antisemitism in the Labour Party being mentioned all over the media.So I'm pretty sure you lot can point me in the right direction.
Search "examples of labour party antisemitism"

This is from last week.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...m-figures-show
Quote:
Angry MPs have demanded further action against antisemitism after Labour revealed it has investigated 673 alleged cases and expelled 12 party members since last April.

The party revealed the figures in an email to MPs, and suggested no earlier figures could be compiled because there was “no consistent and comprehensive system for recording and processing cases of antisemitism”.

However, the party’s former general secretary Iain McNicol disputed that claim in a private meeting with Labour MPs on Monday night, saying such a system had been in place. MPs who met for the weekly parliamentary Labour party meeting suggested they would demand that the Labour leadership return to answer questions about the criteria for judging cases.

Margaret Hodge was among the MPs who questioned the statistics after the meeting, saying she alone had submitted more than 200 examples of “vile antisemitism” where she believed the evidence showed they had connections with Labour. “There has been a breakdown in trust,” the veteran MP said.

Releasing the disciplinary data for the first time, the party’s general secretary, Jennie Formby, said 96 members had been suspended and 211 had been issued with a notice of investigation. Another 146 had been given a preliminary warning and 220 cases did not have sufficient evidence to proceed.
Quote:
Formby said she rejected claims from some quarters that antisemitism allegations were a smear. “I have seen hard evidence of it and that is why I have been so determined to do whatever is possible to eliminate it from the party,” she said. “It is also the reason why I made it a priority to implement robust procedures to deal with it whenever it is identified.”
The Labour Party’s General Secretary thinks it’s real...

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/0...-the-evidence/
Quote:
Jackie Walker, formerly vice-chair of Momentum, said Jews were the ‘chief financiers of the sugar and slave trade’, criticised security for Jewish schools, and said Holocaust Memorial Day was not ‘inclusive’ enough. After the comments were made and widely condemned, Corbyn shared a platform and campaigned alongside Walker.
Quote:
A former Labour parliamentary candidate in Witham, John Clarke, shared a Neo-Nazi meme saying the Rothschild family has used money lending and Israel to ‘take over the world’. He said the meme ‘contained a great deal of truth’ and was later suspended.
Quote:
Labour Students at Oxford University Labour Club mocked the Jewish victims of the Paris kosher supermarket attack, called Auschwitz a ‘cash cow’, and used the Neo-Nazi slur ‘Zio’, according to extensive testimony from Jewish students. After months of obfuscation, including an NEC decision to not publish a party report that concluded there had been ‘some incidents’ of anti-Semitic behaviour, Labour’s NEC decided not to discipline the key perpetrators.
Quote:
A Labour councillor in Birmingham, Zafar Iqbal, shared a David Duke video on Facebook entitled ‘CNN Goldman Sachs and the Zio Matrix’. The Labour party accepted Mr Iqbal’s apology and claim that he had have no recollection of sharing this video’ – no disciplinary proceedings were enacted.
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Labour Councillor and former Labour Mayor of Blackburn, Salim Mulla, called Zionist Jews a ‘disgrace to humanity’, endorsed a video which blamed Israel for school shootings in the USA, and said ‘Zionism’ was orchestrating ISIS. After an initial suspension he was reinstated as a Labour member.
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Old 20-02-2019, 11:18   #719
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Re: [Updated] 8 MPs Resign from Labour Party

Three Conservative MPs quit to join independents Heidi Allen, Anna Soubry and Sarah Wollaston
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Old 20-02-2019, 11:19   #720
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Re: [Updated] 8 MPs Resign from Labour Party

I am now closing this thread as I have created a new one with the latest news on the Tory defectors.
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