Coronavirus

[tweetiepooh]

Back after most of December on leave (thanks to summer hols cancelled) and I mostly read this from work (via VPN at moment). Just some comments on some of above

1)Local lockdowns may work in larger countries where local could be as big as the UK and the population are compliant and the authorities more authoritarian. Just look at the headlines for people visiting Brecon and another migration from London to second homes of those that can afford it.

2)Finally went to my dentist in a fairly Asian area (need to go for some further work if restriction allow). Lots of Asiatic people both customers and staff in shops without masks. My family report the same in other similar areas.

3)Of course there should be some blame with the civil service and all the other layers of bureaucracy. Will always slow things down, put up objections (sometime valid) or even occasional deliberate interference.

4)I'm looking forward to going out without a mask and giving hugs to friends. To meeting at church, singing together, being with large groups of kids. Able just to decide on the spur which restaurant to go into. Maybe a little way off but hopefully not too far.

5)Whatifs are easy after the event. Certainly a second wave was likely and we don't know what was planned. Health authorities probably did have plans and are implementing them, it would be worse if they hadn't. But they also have to take care of the non-Covid now issues. My wife and I both need tests and scans, not cancelled yet but could be. Will that cause worse issues down the line? How is that fair and the same for other "pushed" out by covid? Would that be better/worse if capacity had been held for 2nd wave? If no second wave but everything geared to one who gets the blame for all the problems that would cause?

It's not been a nice year. Work hasn't changed too much, with my team scattered over the UK it's just moved from different offices to different homes but same work/tasks etc. It's the fun, outside office stuff that's been affected. At least with Tier 4 archery outside is still allowed - bit chilly but we can do it.

Keep safe everyone.

[jfman]

I see the Government have masterminded another “short cut” giving more people the first dose and changing the timeframe from the second dose to 12 weeks from 4 weeks. Once again looking for an easy/quick way out rather than put in the hard graft.

Anyone aware of any other countries taking this step?

Hopefully doesn’t have a significant impact on effectiveness and/or gets more people the Pfizer vaccine.

[Sephiroth]

My former brother-in-law has just died in hospital from CV -contracted there. He was taken in for a gall bladder operation and duly contracted CV.

That's terrible. In my day (when Emergency Ward 10 was on TV), every hospital had a ruthless matron. My current mother-in-law (dcd,) has confirmed that the reason that typhus etc didn't run rife in hospitals back then was a rigorous cleaning regime including the use of carbolic to clean bedframes and so on. Clearly CV is rife on hospital services and the pontifications of the NHS Chief Executive are worthless unless he gets the hospital sanitation regime under control.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

My former brother-in-law has just died in hospital from CV -contracted there. He was taken in for a gall bladder operation and duly contracted CV.

That's terrible. In my day (when Emergency Ward 10 was on TV), every hospital had a ruthless matron. My current mother-in-law (dcd,) has confirmed that the reason that typhus etc didn't run rife in hospitals back then was a rigorous cleaning regime including the use of carbolic to clean bedframes and so on. Clearly CV is rife on hospital services and the pontifications of the NHS Chief Executive are worthless unless he gets the hospital sanitation regime under control.

Sorry to hear about your former brother in law Seph.

Unfortunately, while cleaning is important, you can clean everything as much as you like but while there's an airborne virus in a closed environment you can't reduce the risk to zero. Well, you can, but it'd involve everyone running around like the guys in the Intel ads circa 2000.

Originally Posted by jfman

I see the Government have masterminded another “short cut” giving more people the first dose and changing the timeframe from the second dose to 12 weeks from 4 weeks. Once again looking for an easy/quick way out rather than put in the hard graft.

Anyone aware of any other countries taking this step?

Hopefully doesn’t have a significant impact on effectiveness and/or gets more people the Pfizer vaccine.

The longer gap is as recommended by the JCVI. It believes there is a greater benefit in some protection for more people, than greater protection for fewer people. It is also weighing (as yet unpublished) evidence that the second dose may be more effective if the gap between doses is longer.

Given that our public vaccination programme is ahead of everywhere else in the world, it’s not necessarily surprising if we’re the ones innovating. Not everything has to be a short-cutting, complacent wheeze.

[1andrew1]

What a star!

England’s top medic Chris Whitty treated Covid patients over Christmas weekend

England’s chief medical officer, Chris Whitty, has been helping to treat coronavirus patients on wards at one of London’s top hospitals during the Christmas weekend, The Independent has learned.

Professor Whitty, a consultant physician at University College London Hospitals Trust, was spotted working on the north London hospital’s respiratory ward over the weekend and bank holiday Monday.

He worked the shifts in his capacity as a practising doctor and not in his role as chief medical officer for England.

Prof Whitty, who became chief medical officer in 2018, has become a household name after rising to prominence during the coronavirus crisis and appearing at numerous Downing Street briefings.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/h...-b1780017.html

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

What a star!


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/h...-b1780017.html

Confirms that he has no life outside of work, no wonder he's lockdown mad.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Chris

The longer gap is as recommended by the JCVI. It believes there is a greater benefit in some protection for more people, than greater protection for fewer people. It is also weighing (as yet unpublished) evidence that the second dose may be more effective if the gap between doses is longer.

Given that our public vaccination programme is ahead of everywhere else in the world, it’s not necessarily surprising if we’re the ones innovating. Not everything has to be a short-cutting, complacent wheeze.

The proof will be in the pudding I guess when the results come in. Being ahead of the rest of the world can either be through being truly innovative, or taking short cuts. Our emergency authorisation of untested products isn't necessarily indicative that we are "ahead" - simply that he situation is so grave that we weigh up the risks and reach an earlier conclusion.

If, for example, they believe the Oxford vaccine and it's lower effectiveness is at greatest risk of failing as mutations emerge the risk based approach would be to get it out there as quickly as possible. I doubt such information would go into the public domain due to being alarming. There would always be positive spin.

Originally Posted by jfman

The proof will be in the pudding I guess when the results come in. Being ahead of the rest of the world can either be through being truly innovative, or taking short cuts. Our emergency authorisation of untested products isn't necessarily indicative that we are "ahead" - simply that he situation is so grave that we weigh up the risks and reach an earlier conclusion.

If, for example, they believe the Oxford vaccine and it's lower effectiveness is at greatest risk of failing as mutations emerge the risk based approach would be to get it out there as quickly as possible. I doubt such information would go into the public domain due to being alarming. There would always be positive spin.

You’re sounding alarmingly like a bacofoil salesman this morning jf. What “untested” products are you aware of that the rest of us aren’t? (You can’t be talking about either one of the two vaccines approved for use in the UK, which are manifestly not “untested”). Your second paragraph is, as far as I can see, fevered speculation, based as is on information you admit wouldn’t be made public even if it did exist ...

[tweetiepooh]

It's possible that inbuilt delays in the system are being short circuited. Maybe other medications awaiting approval are being pushed down the queue.

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

My former brother-in-law has just died in hospital from CV -contracted there. He was taken in for a gall bladder operation and duly contracted CV.

That's terrible. In my day (when Emergency Ward 10 was on TV), every hospital had a ruthless matron. My current mother-in-law (dcd,) has confirmed that the reason that typhus etc didn't run rife in hospitals back then was a rigorous cleaning regime including the use of carbolic to clean bedframes and so on. Clearly CV is rife on hospital services and the pontifications of the NHS Chief Executive are worthless unless he gets the hospital sanitation regime under control.

I would like to echo the sympathies to you and your family.

In general, there has been some remarkable success in reducing hospital acquired (nosocomial) infections. This study show some amazing reduction in cases of the usual suspects for hospital infections such as MRSA and digestive diseases. A lot of this is down to effective cleaning. Incorrect use of anti microbial cleaners can be worse than none as it will tend to select for the real nasties. The evidence of surface transmission for SARS-COV2 seems to be weak. However, it is very difficult to socially distance while being treated in hospitals which is why the staff wear so much PPE everywhere.

Hospital infection control will always be a risk/benefit equation. If you want to prevent hospital acquired infections, the best way is to not have any patients. This was of course the approach used, cancelling elective and non-urgent procedures. However, this of course is not sustainable in the long term and there will be non-COVID cases that cannot wait (I enjoyed this with my daughter where we spent a week in hospital together while she was being treated)

Strict separation of COVID and non-COVID areas is the first line of defence if the layout of the hospital allows this. However, the upshot of this is staffing. ICU care is incredibly staff intensive and this takes staff away from other areas.

By the way, if you want to donate to the staff of your local hospital, the most welcome gift right now is good quality hand cream. The amount of hand washing and sanitising going on right now is insane and it wrecks the skin. We sent a whole bunch of Vaseline Intensive Care cream to the team who looked after our daughter and it was very well received!

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

The proof will be in the pudding I guess when the results come in. Being ahead of the rest of the world can either be through being truly innovative, or taking short cuts. Our emergency authorisation of untested products isn't necessarily indicative that we are "ahead" - simply that he situation is so grave that we weigh up the risks and reach an earlier conclusion.

If, for example, they believe the Oxford vaccine and it's lower effectiveness is at greatest risk of failing as mutations emerge the risk based approach would be to get it out there as quickly as possible. I doubt such information would go into the public domain due to being alarming. There would always be positive spin.

Even when we’re ahead, you just have to criticise!

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Chris

You’re sounding alarmingly like a bacofoil salesman this morning jf. What “untested” products are you aware of that the rest of us aren’t? (You can’t be talking about either one of the two vaccines approved for use in the UK, which are manifestly not “untested”). Your second paragraph is, as far as I can see, fevered speculation, based as is on information you admit wouldn’t be made public even if it did exist ...

I shouldn't have used 'untested' I agree, but not going through a full authorisation process hence emergency use being authorised given the emergency.

I certainly hope I'm wrong with my glass half empty view and that these risks pay off but administering the vaccine 12 weeks apart and not 4 is untested in that respect.

---------- Post added at 12:01 ---------- Previous post was at 12:00 ----------

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Even when we’re ahead, you just have to criticise!

Last time I checked we had free speech.

[tweetiepooh]

breaking

Covid-19: Oxford-AstraZeneca coronavirus vaccine approved for use in UK - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55280671

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

What a star!


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/h...-b1780017.html

What? Doing his job? Only as much a star as my binmen