Home News Forum Articles
  Welcome back Join CF
You are here You are here: Home | Forum | Leadership who is the next PM?

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most of the discussions, articles and other free features. By joining our Virgin Media community you will have full access to all discussions, be able to view and post threads, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own images/photos, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please join our community today.


Welcome to Cable Forum
Go Back   Cable Forum > General Discussion > Current Affairs

Leadership who is the next PM?
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-06-2019, 22:55   #166
1andrew1
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,304
1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal
1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?

It's even simple. A public servant was told repeatedly by the Office of National Statistics to stop using incorrect information. He didn't.
Quote:
“Having considered all the relevant factors, I am satisfied that this is a proper case to issue the summons as requested for the three offenses as drafted,” Judge Coleman said. “This means the proposed defendant will be required to attend this court for a preliminary hearing, and the case will then be sent to the Crown Court for trial.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/29/w...on-brexit.html

---------- Post added at 22:55 ---------- Previous post was at 22:51 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
It’s dead simple. We send £350 million gross to the EU; after that, regardless of how much is then spent back in UK, that spending is beyond the democratic control of the British people or their representatives. It is perfectly acceptable for a political campaign to point out that we are losing control of a sum of money and to propose that we re-take control and make our own spending decisions.

What I think has really triggered the hard remainers of the (mostly) liberal, metropolitan left, is that the Leave campaign had the sheer nerve to invoke the sacred name of the NHS on the side of the bus. The NHS, as we know, is a sacred cow, that must not be used to try to persuade voters about anything, except of course if you’re a Labour politician trying to persuade people how nasty Tories are, in which case it’s fair game.
It was a clever ploy which I'm sure you're aware of, Chris. Create a false figure for the contributions higher than we send. Remainers complain about this and all the debate focuses on the contributions we send the EU and not the value and higher GDP we get from being a member.
The NHS was a clever ploy too - use the logo without permission and make it apper that it was being endorsed by the NHS.
1andrew1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Old 05-06-2019, 22:59   #167
Chris
Trollsplatter
Cable Forum Team
 
Chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 31,775
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?

Well, it’s a moribund argument now anyway. Perhaps the court process will throw up something that hasn’t already been said a thousand times...
Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2019, 23:07   #168
Carth
cf.geek
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: At the Leaving door
Posts: 883
Carth is the helpful oneCarth is the helpful oneCarth is the helpful oneCarth is the helpful oneCarth is the helpful oneCarth is the helpful oneCarth is the helpful oneCarth is the helpful oneCarth is the helpful oneCarth is the helpful oneCarth is the helpful oneCarth is the helpful oneCarth is the helpful oneCarth is the helpful oneCarth is the helpful oneCarth is the helpful oneCarth is the helpful oneCarth is the helpful one
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?

£350 million a week doesn’t include the rebate

£350 million is roughly what we would pay to the EU budget without the rebate.

The rebate is applied straight away

The UK actually paid closer to £250 million a week.


So . . apparently, according to the ridiculous figures above, we're getting a £100 million rebate on money that we didn't even pay?

Any idea why we didn't just pay £250 million and stuff the rebate?
__________________
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it - 'T. Pratchett'
Carth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2019, 23:27   #169
1andrew1
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,304
1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal
1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?

Quote:
Tory leadership: Brexit deadline 'not fixed date' says Gove
Conservative leadership contender Michael Gove has said he regards the UK's 31 October Brexit deadline as "arbitrary" and is "not wedded" to it.
He told an event in London the UK must not be bound by a "fixed" date if it needs slightly more time to get a deal.
But he insisted any further delay would be a matter of weeks, not months.
Other candidates, including Boris Johnson and Dominic Raab, insist the UK must leave on 31 October whether it has approved a deal with Brussels or not.
The UK was originally meant to leave on 29 March. That was then pushed back to 12 April and eventually Halloween after Theresa May failed to get MPs to approve her withdrawal agreement.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48535879
1andrew1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2019, 06:51   #170
Pierre
The Dark Satanic Mills
 
Pierre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: floating in the ether
Posts: 7,533
Pierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny star
Pierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny star
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?

Well in that case I am going to sue my employer as the annual figure that they state is my salary, is no where near what I receive in my pay packet.

They have been lying to me all my working life.

---------- Post added at 06:51 ---------- Previous post was at 06:46 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth View Post
[I]

Any idea why we didn't just pay £250 million and stuff the rebate?
It’s not hard to understand, this kind of think happens on all kinds on financial transactions all the time. It’s Because £350M is what is on the books, the fact that they give us the £100m back doesn’t remove the liability from our ledger, as at any time the rebate could be removed so we still have to account for it.
__________________
The wheel's still turning but the hamsters dead.
Pierre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2019, 08:41   #171
Hugh
Hic Sunt Dracones
Cable Forum Team
 
Hugh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 62
Services: Premiere Collection
Posts: 32,907
Hugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden aura
Hugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden aura
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
Well in that case I am going to sue my employer as the annual figure that they state is my salary, is no where near what I receive in my pay packet.

They have been lying to me all my working life.

---------- Post added at 06:51 ---------- Previous post was at 06:46 ----------



It’s not hard to understand, this kind of think happens on all kinds on financial transactions all the time. It’s Because £350M is what is on the books, the fact that they give us the £100m back doesn’t remove the liability from our ledger, as at any time the rebate could be removed so we still have to account for it.
Go for it...
__________________
If my post is in bold and this colour, it's a Moderator Request.
Hugh is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2019, 08:43   #172
Damien
Remoaner
Cable Forum Team
 
Damien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 28,884
Damien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered stars
Damien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered stars
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?

Full Fact have a good breakdown here: https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-m...ee-55-million/

I suspect the case will hinge on the claim we 'send' £350 million rather than we are 'billed' £350 million or the EU membership fee 'costs' £350 million send we literally do not send that amount at all. I think it was a lie and it's a bit silly to argue it isn't, no one truly believes that the claim was talking about a hypothetical amount especially since the claim was that the money would be available for the NHS which is clearly would not.

But to me this is standard politics. The Government also were involved in 'creatively' using numbers when they claimed it would cost £4,300 per household to Leave: https://fullfact.org/europe/4300-que...usehold-worse/

I don't think this case will get anywhere and there are troublesome consequences if it did. If this case actually goes ahead then you would every election litigated after the fact by the losing side.
Damien is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2019, 13:43   #173
1andrew1
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,304
1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal
1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien View Post
Full Fact have a good breakdown here: https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-m...ee-55-million/

I suspect the case will hinge on the claim we 'send' £350 million rather than we are 'billed' £350 million or the EU membership fee 'costs' £350 million send we literally do not send that amount at all. I think it was a lie and it's a bit silly to argue it isn't, no one truly believes that the claim was talking about a hypothetical amount especially since the claim was that the money would be available for the NHS which is clearly would not.

But to me this is standard politics. The Government also were involved in 'creatively' using numbers when they claimed it would cost £4,300 per household to Leave: https://fullfact.org/europe/4300-que...usehold-worse/

I don't think this case will get anywhere and there are troublesome consequences if it did. If this case actually goes ahead then you would every election litigated after the fact by the losing side.
I agree, there do seem to have been some weak attempts at defending an obvious lie.
But I think that a successful prosecution here would serve politics better and in the longer term, help remove some of the distrust of politicians.
1andrew1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2019, 13:47   #174
denphone
Still alive and fighting
 
denphone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: In the land of beyond and beyond.
Services: XL BB, 2 V6 boxes , XL TV.
Posts: 50,546
denphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver bling
denphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver bling
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
I agree, there do seem to have been some weak attempts at defending an obvious lie.
But I think that a successful prosecution here would serve politics better and in the longer term, help remove some of the distrust of politicians.
You do have to prove a lie and and that is going to be nigh on impossible to do in this case in a court of law.
__________________
“The only lesson you can learn from history is that it repeats itself”
denphone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2019, 13:53   #175
1andrew1
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,304
1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal
1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone View Post
You do have to prove a lie and and that is going to be nigh on impossible to do in this case in a court of law.
I think one aspect is that he was told on multiple occasions by the Office for National Statistics to stop using that figure but he continued to do so. As a public servant, I guess that's the equivalent of someone in your compliance department telling you to stop doing something that's wrong and you continue doing so.

With MPs' expenses, Tony Blair's WMD Iraq situation, investigations into Islamohobia and anti-Semitsim in the two main parties and the Aaron Banks-Nigel Farage financial investigations, UK politics can only benefit from a successful prosecution here.

Last edited by 1andrew1; 06-06-2019 at 13:57.
1andrew1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2019, 15:09   #176
Pierre
The Dark Satanic Mills
 
Pierre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: floating in the ether
Posts: 7,533
Pierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny star
Pierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny star
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
I think one aspect is that he was told on multiple occasions by the Office for National Statistics to stop using that figure but he continued to do so.
Just because he was told not so use it, doesn’t mean the figure isn’t a matter of fact.

Quote:
As a public servant, I guess that's the equivalent of someone in your compliance department telling you to stop doing something that's wrong and you continue doing so.
Again, doesn’t make the figure factually incorrect

Quote:
With MPs' expenses, Tony Blair's WMD Iraq situation, investigations into Islamohobia and anti-Semitsim in the two main parties and the Aaron Banks-Nigel Farage financial investigations, UK politics can only benefit from a successful prosecution here.
Won’t happen, and out of that list Blair is the one that should have prosecuted the two don’ Even compare. Stating a factual figure v deaths of hundreds of thousands of people....hmmmmm
__________________
The wheel's still turning but the hamsters dead.
Pierre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2019, 15:49   #177
1andrew1
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,304
1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal
1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
Just because he was told not so use it, doesn’t mean the figure isn’t a matter of fact.

Again, doesn’t make the figure factually incorrect

Won’t happen, and out of that list Blair is the one that should have prosecuted the two don’ Even compare. Stating a factual figure v deaths of hundreds of thousands of people....hmmmmm
Damien has given Factchecking links showing the slogan to be a lie.
If you feel Blair has a case to answer then why not take out a private prosecution? The Boris one may have more success as it's not about something that happened some 16 years ago!
1andrew1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2019, 16:06   #178
papa smurf
vox populi vox dei
 
papa smurf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: the last resort
Services: every thing
Posts: 10,162
papa smurf has a nice shiny starpapa smurf has a nice shiny starpapa smurf has a nice shiny starpapa smurf has a nice shiny starpapa smurf has a nice shiny star
papa smurf has a nice shiny starpapa smurf has a nice shiny starpapa smurf has a nice shiny starpapa smurf has a nice shiny starpapa smurf has a nice shiny starpapa smurf has a nice shiny starpapa smurf has a nice shiny starpapa smurf has a nice shiny starpapa smurf has a nice shiny starpapa smurf has a nice shiny starpapa smurf has a nice shiny starpapa smurf has a nice shiny starpapa smurf has a nice shiny starpapa smurf has a nice shiny starpapa smurf has a nice shiny starpapa smurf has a nice shiny starpapa smurf has a nice shiny star
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
Damien has given Factchecking links showing the slogan to be a lie.
If you feel Blair has a case to answer then why not take out a private prosecution? The Boris one may have more success as it's not about something that happened some 16 years ago!
Red Bull gives you wings - get the lawyers onto that.
__________________
links posted from news sources are not necessarily my opinion
i don't have the time or the crayons to keep explaining this
papa smurf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2019, 17:31   #179
OLD BOY
Experience is everything
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wokingham
Services: 2 V6 boxes; Full House; Now TV, Amazon and Netflix; VM broadband and landline
Posts: 9,069
OLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze array
OLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze array
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
Damien has given Factchecking links showing the slogan to be a lie.
If you feel Blair has a case to answer then why not take out a private prosecution? The Boris one may have more success as it's not about something that happened some 16 years ago!
Well of course Blair has a case to answer! Why pick on Boris?

It is a ridiculous prosecution brought solely in an attempt to block Brexit.
OLD BOY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2019, 17:52   #180
1andrew1
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,304
1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal
1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Well of course Blair has a case to answer! Why pick on Boris?

It is a ridiculous prosecution brought solely in an attempt to block Brexit.
Why would prosecuting BoJo block Brexit? Most if not all candidates for leader of the Conservative Party are running on a pro-Brexit platform. As an aside, the leaver purists in the Conservative Party blocked Brexit effectively or we would have left on 29/3!

As it's a private prosecution, it's up to the individual concerned to decide whom to prosecute. I suspect they've done more due diligence on this than you and me.

If anyone feels another politician has a better case to answer - fantastic, but they will need to put their words into actions for it to happen.
1andrew1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 6 (5 members and 1 guests)
TheDaddy, Julian, Dave42
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 22:53.


Server: xenon.zmnt.net
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.