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Leadership who is the next PM?
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Old 05-06-2019, 16:24   #151
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Re: Leadership who is the next PM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 View Post
Hypoctites? How so? Did any of Trumps comments come anywhere close to altering a national democratic referendum?

Had he been in power at the time of the referendum and did the same as Obama you can be sure there would have been the same outrage.
How the US sees it...

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...brexit-1353482
Quote:
Donald Trump plays Brexit kingmaker

Donald Trump is using his U.K. state visit to anoint Brexit winners and losers.

The president on Tuesday fully cast his lot with political leaders pushing for Britain to crash out of the European Union ó and in the process trampled on diplomatic norms that foreign leaders generally avoid meddling in domestic politics.
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Old 05-06-2019, 16:35   #152
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Re: Leadership who is the next PM?

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Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
I guess one difference is that Cameron asked for Obama to comment. I've read nothing to say that May did.
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Old 05-06-2019, 18:57   #153
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Re: Leadership who is the next PM?

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Originally Posted by pip08456 View Post
Hypoctites? How so? Did any of Trumps comments come anywhere close to altering a national democratic referendum?
Might have escaped your notice but there's soon to be a vote by a shockingly small number of people to decide our new leader and the smaller the number the greater the impact any influence exerted will have
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Old 05-06-2019, 19:43   #154
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Re: Leadership who is the next PM?

Major
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May

Since 1990 more of our Prime Ministers entered office having not just won a General Election than those that have so I don't see why it's still a surprise for people. It's part of our system. Although at least two of them felt they needed a mandate eventually. The new Tory Leader will have the problem of a deeply divided Parliament and not in a position to argue they have their own personality mandate so it is going to be difficult for them.
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Old 05-06-2019, 20:14   #155
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Re: Leadership who is the next PM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien View Post
Major
Brown
May

Since 1990 more of our Prime Ministers entered office having not just won a General Election than those that have so I don't see why it's still a surprise for people. It's part of our system. Although at least two of them felt they needed a mandate eventually. The new Tory Leader will have the problem of a deeply divided Parliament and not in a position to argue they have their own personality mandate so it is going to be difficult for them.
It's not a surprise. The 'system' is wrong. Hasn't ended well for any of these 'unelected' PMs.
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Old 05-06-2019, 20:24   #156
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Re: Leadership who is the next PM?

I agree I just don't think it's an outrage.

I do think it means the PM doesn't have a mandate to radically change direction though. Whatever we tell ourselves but it being a collection of MPs the party leader is factor in how people vote and the direction the party can go.
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Old 05-06-2019, 20:42   #157
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Re: Leadership who is the next PM?

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He's not been found guilty yet
He canít be found guilty.
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Old 05-06-2019, 20:52   #158
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Re: Leadership who is the next PM?

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Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
He canít be found guilty.
If it goes to a criminal trial, itís one of the options.

A summary from a criminal law barrister.

https://www.legalcheek.com/2019/05/t...-happens-next/
Quote:
What happens next?

As I understand, there is already a judicial review of the district judgeís decision to issue a summons. I do not anticipate that this will be successful, there is a prima facie case to answer and the ruling suggests that there is more to the case than simply a political motivation.

The High Court, who will hear the application by way of case stated, will decide whether the decision was made unlawfully ó it would appear not at face value. Alternatively, they will consider whether or not the decision is Wednesbury Unreasonable, a well-known legal test which means they will decide whether the decision is so unreasonable that no reasonable district judge could have reached it.

There does not appear to be anything unlawful about this decision, however, there will be extensive argument about each element of the offence. One particular area of consideration will be whether or not this is actually in the scope of public office, it is akin to the Carbolic Smoke Company Ďmere puffí. This will take time to consider and there may well be an application for an interim ruling not to issue the summons in the intervening period.

Assuming the judicial review is unsuccessful, there will be a summons issued and Johnson will be required to attend at Westminster Magistrates Court in the near future. It is not possible to say which date this will take place on. This hearing will be extremely short, Johnson will indicate a not guilty plea and the case will be sent to the crown court, probably at Southwark, for a plea trial and preparation hearing within 28 days of that date.
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Old 05-06-2019, 21:00   #159
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Re: Leadership who is the next PM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
If it goes to a criminal trial, itís one of the options.

A summary from a criminal law barrister.

https://www.legalcheek.com/2019/05/t...-happens-next/
But he didnít lie, so how can how he be found guilty?
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Old 05-06-2019, 21:15   #160
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Re: Leadership who is the next PM?

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Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
But he didnít lie, so how can how he be found guilty?
It won't get that far but it would presumably be the court's job to decide if he lied or not.
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Old 05-06-2019, 21:19   #161
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Re: Leadership who is the next PM?

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Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
But he didnít lie, so how can how he be found guilty?
He did lie, how can he found innocent?

Up to a court to decide.

He is guilty of being an idiotic buffoon, if nothing else.
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Old 05-06-2019, 21:26   #162
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Re: Leadership who is the next PM?

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Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
But he didnít lie, so how can how he be found guilty?
If it was as clear cut as this, I doubt the case would have got this far.
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Old 05-06-2019, 22:21   #163
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Re: Leadership who is the next PM?

The £350M figure was correct. Any trainee solicitor would see this off.
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Old 05-06-2019, 22:29   #164
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Re: Leadership who is the next PM?

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Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
The £350M figure was correct. Any trainee solicitor would see this off.
if the trainee solicitor has a magic wand and could shout "expelliarmus" to all the fact-checking websites then you might be onto something.
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Old 05-06-2019, 22:36   #165
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Re: Leadership who is the next PM?

It’s dead simple. We send £350 million gross to the EU; after that, regardless of how much is then spent back in UK, that spending is beyond the democratic control of the British people or their representatives. It is perfectly acceptable for a political campaign to point out that we are losing control of a sum of money and to propose that we re-take control and make our own spending decisions.

What I think has really triggered the hard remainers of the (mostly) liberal, metropolitan left, is that the Leave campaign had the sheer nerve to invoke the sacred name of the NHS on the side of the bus. The NHS, as we know, is a sacred cow, that must not be used to try to persuade voters about anything, except of course if you’re a Labour politician trying to persuade people how nasty Tories are, in which case it’s fair game.
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