Home News Forum Articles
  Welcome back Join CF
You are here You are here: Home | Forum | Brexit

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most of the discussions, articles and other free features. By joining our Virgin Media community you will have full access to all discussions, be able to view and post threads, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own images/photos, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please join our community today.


Welcome to Cable Forum
Go Back   Cable Forum > General Discussion > Current Affairs

Brexit
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 25-05-2019, 11:45   #2626
denphone
Still alive and fighting
 
denphone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: In the land of beyond and beyond.
Services: XL BB, 2 V6 boxes , XL TV.
Posts: 50,516
denphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver bling
denphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver bling
Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
The truth as it sees it! What exactly is the point of Article 24 if it cannot be used? Of course it can be used, as you will see when Boris gets in.
The truth that obviously you find hard to stomach...
__________________
ďThe only lesson you can learn from history is that it repeats itselfĒ
denphone is offline   Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Old 25-05-2019, 11:55   #2627
OLD BOY
Experience is everything
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wokingham
Services: 2 V6 boxes; Full House; Now TV, Amazon and Netflix; VM broadband and landline
Posts: 9,031
OLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze array
OLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze array
Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
You are making the false assumption Parliament will stand idly by. It has consistently shown it will not. A PM being “serious“ isn’t going to change a thing.
I think you will find a change of Leader will change things considerably. For a start, a Brexiteer will have the support of the ERG and DUP. That's pretty good for a start. Refusal to rule out a 'no deal' will exercise the minds of stubborn remainers in the Conservative Party.

Labour just seem focussed on a General Election and therefore will try to wreck whatever suggestion is put forward. However, the polls that come out after the Conservatives elect their new Leader may make Corbyn less enthusiastic to have an election yet.

If the worst comes to the worst and we still cannot get a revised deal through (or the EU continues to play hardball) we simply fall out without a deal. And the sky will still be blue and there will be no cracks in it.

---------- Post added at 11:55 ---------- Previous post was at 11:48 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone View Post
The truth that obviously you find hard to stomach...
You didn't answer the question, as usual, Den? What is the point of Article 24 if it cannot be used?

I can't believe that this negative view has sucked you all in! Ask yourself - why not? The arguments I've seen to support that view are flaky in the extreme.
OLD BOY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-05-2019, 12:16   #2628
denphone
Still alive and fighting
 
denphone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: In the land of beyond and beyond.
Services: XL BB, 2 V6 boxes , XL TV.
Posts: 50,516
denphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver bling
denphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver bling
Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post

You didn't answer the question, as usual, Den? What is the point of Article 24 if it cannot be used?
l am talking about the independent organisation Full Facts which states the true facts that they are independent of political interference.
__________________
ďThe only lesson you can learn from history is that it repeats itselfĒ
denphone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-05-2019, 12:55   #2629
jfman
Architect of Ideas
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,989
jfman is the helpful onejfman is the helpful onejfman is the helpful onejfman is the helpful onejfman is the helpful onejfman is the helpful onejfman is the helpful onejfman is the helpful onejfman is the helpful onejfman is the helpful onejfman is the helpful onejfman is the helpful onejfman is the helpful onejfman is the helpful onejfman is the helpful onejfman is the helpful onejfman is the helpful onejfman is the helpful one
Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
I think you will find a change of Leader will change things considerably. For a start, a Brexiteer will have the support of the ERG and DUP. That's pretty good for a start. Refusal to rule out a 'no deal' will exercise the minds of stubborn remainers in the Conservative Party.

Labour just seem focussed on a General Election and therefore will try to wreck whatever suggestion is put forward. However, the polls that come out after the Conservatives elect their new Leader may make Corbyn less enthusiastic to have an election yet.

If the worst comes to the worst and we still cannot get a revised deal through (or the EU continues to play hardball) we simply fall out without a deal. And the sky will still be blue and there will be no cracks in it.

---------- Post added at 11:55 ---------- Previous post was at 11:48 ----------



You didn't answer the question, as usual, Den? What is the point of Article 24 if it cannot be used?

I can't believe that this negative view has sucked you all in! Ask yourself - why not? The arguments I've seen to support that view are flaky in the extreme.
Someone who wants no deal will get the support of the ERG and DUP, but crucially not remainers in Parliament. The situation is exactly the same for a new PM as it was for TM.

Article 24 requires the agreement of the EU. Even Liam Fox says it’s not a viable solution. If it was viable Theresa May would have delivered it and still been PM. It’s the ultimate kick of the can.
jfman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 25-05-2019, 13:31   #2630
1andrew1
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,296
1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal
1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal
Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone View Post
l am talking about the independent organisation Full Facts which states the true facts that they are independent of political interference.
If Old Boy knows something they don't know, then I suggest he shares this with Liam Fox, the Full Facts team, et al so they can take his informed analysis into account.

---------- Post added at 13:31 ---------- Previous post was at 13:29 ----------

I see that Matthew Parris in The Times is suggesting "Boris Johnson is enough of a rascal to rat on Brexit"
"The frontrunner for No 10 might be the only candidate who’d get away with ripping up Article 50 and starting again"

It's behind a paywall but it's an interesting theory.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/c...exit-m86qc2ksm

Last edited by 1andrew1; 25-05-2019 at 13:43.
1andrew1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-05-2019, 13:37   #2631
nomadking
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Northampton
Services: Virgin Media TV&BB 200Mb Tivo STB
Posts: 4,792
nomadking has a bronzed appealnomadking has a bronzed appeal
nomadking has a bronzed appealnomadking has a bronzed appealnomadking has a bronzed appealnomadking has a bronzed appealnomadking has a bronzed appealnomadking has a bronzed appealnomadking has a bronzed appeal
Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone View Post
l am talking about the independent organisation Full Facts which states the true facts that they are independent of political interference.
All too easy too miss out inconveinent facts. So many things that people are not allowed to comment on with a severe penalty, eg losing their job.


As someone once said on a 1980's talk show, "Liberalism is just Fascism by another name".
nomadking is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 25-05-2019, 15:59   #2632
Damien
Remoaner
Cable Forum Team
 
Damien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 28,862
Damien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered stars
Damien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered stars
Re: Brexit

That’s a pretty stupid slogan though isn’t it?
Damien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-05-2019, 16:52   #2633
Pierre
The Dark Satanic Mills
 
Pierre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: floating in the ether
Posts: 7,533
Pierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny star
Pierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny star
Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
Their successor.
? You have no choice but to cede power to your successor because theyíre............your successor.
__________________
The wheel's still turning but the hamsters dead.
Pierre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-05-2019, 17:01   #2634
Sephiroth
Simples
 
Sephiroth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: RG41
Services: Vivid 200;Hub 3 MM; ASUS RT-AC68U. BT Infinity2; Tivo; V6; XL Phone; Devolo 1200AV
Posts: 6,382
Sephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze array
Sephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze array
Re: Brexit

I just want to remind people of the core issue here:

The Referendum result was LEAVE and the people who voted otherwise must accept that under democratic convention.

What kind of "leave" is much of what the argument is about here, but basically the Remainers want to use that bone of contention as a means of delaying (or indeed preventing) Brexit so that they can justify their call for a new referendum in the "light of what we know now".

We know now what a bunch of bullies the EU are when the British people vote to leave their so-called union. Remainers often say that this is to be expected because they are merely looking after their own interests. Quite so, but true colours, once exposed, don't encourage one to want to get close to them again, especially that perfidious Varadkar.

The Remainers claim that no-deal will be a disaster; they have no real idea if this will be the case; just Project Fear again. To me, sovereignty is the issue (whether or not it buys the biscuits). They can shove their Renaults, Citroens, BMWs and Mercedes where the sun don't shine. Ireland can stew in Varadkar's perfidious juices.

We have the opportunity of tearing up the WA, soundly rejected by Parliament and either starting again on a time limited programme or else leaving on 31-October.
__________________
Seph.

My advice is at your risk.

Last edited by Sephiroth; 25-05-2019 at 17:18.
Sephiroth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-05-2019, 17:02   #2635
Pierre
The Dark Satanic Mills
 
Pierre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: floating in the ether
Posts: 7,533
Pierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny star
Pierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny star
Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Someone who wants no deal will get the support of the ERG and DUP, but crucially not remainers in Parliament.
I donít think anyone wants no deal, but crucially you have to prepared to expect it and accept it if necessary. This will happen on 31/10 if we do not ask for an extension or if the EU donít grant one. Parliament can object all they want they are powerless to stop it in those scenarios.
Quote:
The situation is exactly the same for a new PM as it was for TM.
Yes and No, May could have taken us out with no deal but chose not to. Donít know what the new PM would do.
__________________
The wheel's still turning but the hamsters dead.
Pierre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-05-2019, 17:14   #2636
OLD BOY
Experience is everything
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wokingham
Services: 2 V6 boxes; Full House; Now TV, Amazon and Netflix; VM broadband and landline
Posts: 9,031
OLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze array
OLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze array
Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Someone who wants no deal will get the support of the ERG and DUP, but crucially not remainers in Parliament. The situation is exactly the same for a new PM as it was for TM.

Article 24 requires the agreement of the EU. Even Liam Fox says itís not a viable solution. If it was viable Theresa May would have delivered it and still been PM. Itís the ultimate kick of the can.
I believe it is a viable solution. For some reason, non-Brexiteers don't want to use it.

---------- Post added at 17:13 ---------- Previous post was at 17:12 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
If Old Boy knows something they don't know, then I suggest he shares this with Liam Fox, the Full Facts team, et al so they can take his informed analysis into account.

---------- Post added at 13:31 ---------- Previous post was at 13:29 ----------

I see that Matthew Parris in The Times is suggesting "Boris Johnson is enough of a rascal to rat on Brexit"
"The frontrunner for No 10 might be the only candidate whoíd get away with ripping up Article 50 and starting again"

It's behind a paywall but it's an interesting theory.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/c...exit-m86qc2ksm
A reporter's fantasy.

---------- Post added at 17:14 ---------- Previous post was at 17:13 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone View Post
l am talking about the independent organisation Full Facts which states the true facts that they are independent of political interference.
That's different from being neutral.

I used to think The Independent newspaper was neutral. How daft was I?
OLD BOY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-05-2019, 17:16   #2637
jfman
Architect of Ideas
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,989
jfman is the helpful onejfman is the helpful onejfman is the helpful onejfman is the helpful onejfman is the helpful onejfman is the helpful onejfman is the helpful onejfman is the helpful onejfman is the helpful onejfman is the helpful onejfman is the helpful onejfman is the helpful onejfman is the helpful onejfman is the helpful onejfman is the helpful onejfman is the helpful onejfman is the helpful onejfman is the helpful one
Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
I believe it is a viable solution. For some reason, non-Brexiteers don't want to use it.

---------- Post added at 17:13 ---------- Previous post was at 17:12 ----------



A reporter's fantasy.

---------- Post added at 17:14 ---------- Previous post was at 17:13 ----------



That's different from being neutral.

I used to think The Independent newspaper was neutral. How daft was I?
Can you explain why the EU will agree to it? It's a threat to Single Market integrity to enter into such an arrangement.

---------- Post added at 17:16 ---------- Previous post was at 17:15 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
I donít think anyone wants no deal, but crucially you have to prepared to expect it and accept it if necessary. This will happen on 31/10 if we do not ask for an extension or if the EU donít grant one. Parliament can object all they want they are powerless to stop it in those scenarios. Yes and No, May could have taken us out with no deal but chose not to. Donít know what the new PM would do.
It's a long time between now and October. Parliament has plenty of time.
jfman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 25-05-2019, 17:16   #2638
OLD BOY
Experience is everything
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wokingham
Services: 2 V6 boxes; Full House; Now TV, Amazon and Netflix; VM broadband and landline
Posts: 9,031
OLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze array
OLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze array
Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
I donít think anyone wants no deal, but crucially you have to prepared to expect it and accept it if necessary. This will happen on 31/10 if we do not ask for an extension or if the EU donít grant one. Parliament can object all they want they are powerless to stop it in those scenarios. Yes and No, May could have taken us out with no deal but chose not to. Donít know what the new PM would do.
There's nothing wrong with a no deal Brexit. Don't fall for the Remainers' hysteria.
OLD BOY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-05-2019, 17:31   #2639
Damien
Remoaner
Cable Forum Team
 
Damien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 28,862
Damien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered stars
Damien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered starsDamien is seeing silvered stars
Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
? You have no choice but to cede power to your successor because theyíre............your successor.
Obviously but my point is Prime Ministers are reluctant to give up power easily.

May = Forced Out
Cameron = Kind of had to go
Brown = Lost election
Blair = The writing was on the wall
Mayor = Lost election
Thatcher = Forced out

It would be very unlikely a Prime Minister would embrace a path that would detonate their own leadership so soon after winning it. Especially someone like Boris whose wanted the job forever.

And that would all be to try and leave with No Deal which they could well be stopped by their own party or Parliament anyway.

I happened to listen to a good podcast today which covered this and explained just why a PM trying to hunker down and await no deal would be unlikely to do it: https://www.conservativehome.com/vid...d-no-deal.html
Damien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-05-2019, 17:46   #2640
Pierre
The Dark Satanic Mills
 
Pierre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: floating in the ether
Posts: 7,533
Pierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny star
Pierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny star
Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post

It's a long time between now and October. Parliament has plenty of time.
Agreed, but I wouldnít hold my breath.

Be seen to frustrate Brexit and you alienate at least 50% of the electorate. Mr Corbyn is so desperate for a GE, but he is on fantasy land if he thinks heíll walk it and anything he does that blatantly frustrates Brexit will hurt him and he knows it.

So if the new PM refuses a GE until after Brexit Is concluded donít be so sure on what Parliament May do.
__________________
The wheel's still turning but the hamsters dead.
Pierre is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (1 members and 1 guests)
GrimUpNorth
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 23:39.


Server: xenon.zmnt.net
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.