President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Tax evasion is what they "get" you on in the states when they can't find anything else.

Well, they got Al Capone on that didn't they.

What's weird is if you have committed crimes you would rather not be found out then why get involved in a US Presidential Campaign? You're exposing yourself to massive risk and people will start sniffing around. As we can see the moment any investigation happens then it all comes out. You think you would keep your head down and hope nobody looks too closely at your bank accounts and tax returns wouldn't it? Not step into a massive x-ray machine that is the US Presidency.

Same thing happened with the Clintons. They weren't even looking at the affairs when Clinton perjured himself.

---------- Post added at 16:31 ---------- Previous post was at 16:25 ----------

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45270339

US President Donald Trump's ex-lawyer, Michael Cohen, is said to be "more than happy" to speak to the inquiry into alleged collusion with Russia.

Cohen pleaded guilty on Tuesday to violating finance laws during the 2016 presidential election by handling hush money for Mr Trump's alleged lovers.

Cohen is ready to "tell everything about Donald Trump that he knows", his personal lawyer said.

Not great if your lawyer has turned into a informant! Although he isn't going to get a plea deal unless he actually has anything to offer them.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Damien

What's weird is if you have committed crimes you would rather not be found out then why get involved in a US Presidential Campaign? You're exposing yourself to massive risk and people will start sniffing around. As we can see the moment any investigation happens then it all comes out. You think you would keep your head down and hope nobody looks too closely at your bank accounts and tax returns wouldn't it? Not step into a massive x-ray machine that is the US Presidency.

Same thing happened with the Clintons. They weren't even looking at the affairs when Clinton perjured himself.

---------- Post added at 16:31 ---------- Previous post was at 16:25 ----------

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45270339



Not great if your lawyer has turned into a informant! Although he isn't going to get a plea deal unless he actually has anything to offer them.

As I already showed he already has a plea deal. 3-5yrs instead of 30yrs.

Originally Posted by pip08456

As I already showed he already has a plea deal. 3-5yrs instead of 30yrs.

I thought that a plea in the sense that if he pleads guilty he gets a lower sentence, not a deal in the sense that if he gives up info on other crimes by other people he gets a (further) reduced sentence?

Donald J Trump
@realdonaldtrump

Michael Cohen plead guilty to two counts of campaign finance violations that are not a crime. President Obama had a big campaign finance violation and it was easily settled!

22/08/2018, 14:37

Just to clarify - his (ex-)personal lawyer, who worked for him for 12 years, who was a Vice-President of the Trump Organisation and was his Special Counsel, is so stupid and ignorant of the law that he pled guilty to stuff that isn't even a crime?

You have to ask what kind of person would even hire a lawyer like that?

And how dumb is the Federal Judge who found Cohen guilty of something that isn’t a crime?

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Damien

I thought that a plea in the sense that if he pleads guilty he gets a lower sentence, not a deal in the sense that if he gives up info on other crimes by other people he gets a (further) reduced sentence?

Have you actually read the plea deal that I linked to signed by both him and his attourney? He has got a reduced sentence.

---------- Post added at 18:07 ---------- Previous post was at 17:58 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

Just to clarify - his (ex-)personal lawyer, who worked for him for 12 years, who was a Vice-President of the Trump Organisation and was his Special Counsel, is so stupid and ignorant of the law that he pled guilty to stuff that isn't even a crime?

You have to ask what kind of person would even hire a lawyer like that?

And how dumb is the Federal Judge who found Cohen guilty of something that isn’t a crime?

What non crime did he plead guilty to?

The Federal Judge didn't find him guilty of anything, he and his attourney signed the plea agreement on the basis he was in fact guilty.

I suggest you also read the plea deal I linked to earlier. Especially paragraph 2 page 6.

[Chloé Palmas]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Just to clarify - his (ex-)personal lawyer, who worked for him for 12 years, who was a Vice-President of the Trump Organisation and was his Special Counsel, is so stupid and ignorant of the law that he pled guilty to stuff that isn't even a crime?

Well, yeah he was some pathetic little taxi firm owner who was playing the "I am lawyer card". To such an extent that even Trump called him a "fixer". He was nothing more than some little jackboot who ran his mouth and through the race for President, insulted everyone.

Now ever Republican will remember every name that he called them.

You have to ask what kind of person would even hire a lawyer like that?

The same kind of guy who hired someone like Omar...ahh forget it.

And how dumb is the Federal Judge who found Cohen guilty of something that isn’t a crime?

He didn't, he accepted a guilty plea. Totally different.

[Lutherf]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Just to clarify - his (ex-)personal lawyer, who worked for him for 12 years, who was a Vice-President of the Trump Organisation and was his Special Counsel, is so stupid and ignorant of the law that he pled guilty to stuff that isn't even a crime?

You have to ask what kind of person would even hire a lawyer like that?

And how dumb is the Federal Judge who found Cohen guilty of something that isn’t a crime?

To be clear, the judge didn't find Cohen guilty of anything. He merely accepted a plea between Cohen and the prosecution.

---------- Post added at 18:44 ---------- Previous post was at 18:36 ----------

Originally Posted by pip08456

Have you actually read the plea deal that I linked to signed by both him and his attourney? He has got a reduced sentence.

---------- Post added at 18:07 ---------- Previous post was at 17:58 ----------



What non crime did he plead guilty to?

The Federal Judge didn't find him guilty of anything, he and his attourney signed the plea agreement on the basis he was in fact guilty.

I suggest you also read the plea deal I linked to earlier. Especially paragraph 2 page 6.

His plea doesn't exactly mean he's guilty. Plea agreements are made all the time for reasons other than guilt. The most common reason for accepting a plea is to limit the potential for a more harsh sentence.

In this particular case the plea has all the hallmarks of a political ploy.

Cohen was likely up to his eyeballs in tax problems and looking at 60 years just on those. If the deal was that he'd get the reduced sentence as long as he confessed to something they might be able to use against Trump (and wouldn't have to prosecute) then the prosecution got what they were looking for.

[Chloé Palmas]

Originally Posted by Mick

Mueller will not be allowed to carry this investigation on and on. By now, Trump should rightly use his constitutional power as President and fire Mueller because it’s very obvious this was a setup from the very beginning, bent officials that had ties to funding from the Crooked Clinton’s or folk with close connections to them.

If you fire the guy investigating your campaign there is such a possible conflict of interest that it would almost instantly warrant and OoJ charge. (Probably rightly so).

Given the questions surrounding Kavanaugh's work on the Starr counsel the last thing we need at confirmation are questions on the termination of an independent counsel.

Mueller was tasked to investigate possible links in the Trump campaign with the Russians hacking the DNC. He hasn’t found that evidence, so as his unlimited scope is now looking for any potential crimes, even petty crimes that are being blown up to be impeachable crimes.

Trump is not the target, though. Then again, a blue dress and cigar were not fundamental to the target of Whitewater though, were they? This is what happens with IC's. They start off with one thing and go end up God only know where.

They are defined as being the civilian / law enforcement equivalent of mission creep.

Originally Posted by pip08456

Have you actually read the plea deal that I linked to signed by both him and his attourney? He has got a reduced sentence.[

Yeah but that’s just an agreement that he pleads guilty for a reduced sentence. Not for giving information to help with another case as far as I can see?

[Chloé Palmas]

Originally Posted by Damien

If Trump hasn’t done anything wrong then there will be no charges, Manafort might well be found not guilty given the time the jury is taking.

The thing is, those jurors were clear on the (obvious) guilt of Manafort on the charges that they found guilt on almost instantly...the delay was on the ones determined to be deadlocked which they had a mistrial over.

Basically the way that juries end up is that they get hardened beyond all reason and just hunker down in their positions.

There is no budging at that point, on the rest.

The government should re-try the counts and then comes the second trial. If sentences run concurrent (assuming that he is found guilty in the second trial) this will put him away for the rest of his life.

There is no indication that Trump would pardon him yet.

Originally Posted by Chloé Palmas

The thing is, those jurors were clear on the (obvious) guilt of Manafort on the charges that they found guilt on almost instantly...the delay was on the ones determined to be deadlocked which they had a mistrial over.

Basically the way that juries end up is that they get hardened beyond all reason and just hunker down in their positions.

There is no budging at that point, on the rest.

The government should re-try the counts and then comes the second trial. If sentences run concurrent (assuming that he is found guilty in the second trial) this will put him away for the rest of his life.

There is no indication that Trump would pardon him yet.

Yeah I've say on a jury before and hated it. Judge wanted a unanimous decision there too.

I don't think the government will retry the other cases. They got enough to put him to jail for life and there is another, more serious, case to come.

[Lutherf]

Originally Posted by Chloé Palmas

If you fire the guy investigating your campaign there is such a possible conflict of interest that it would almost instantly warrant and OoJ charge. (Probably rightly so).

Given the questions surrounding Kavanaugh's work on the Starr counsel the last thing we need at confirmation are questions on the termination of an independent counsel.


Trump is not the target, though. Then again, a blue dress and cigar were not fundamental to the target of Whitewater though, were they? This is what happens with IC's. They start off with one thing and go end up God only know where.

They are defined as being the civilian / law enforcement equivalent of mission creep.

Trump is ABSOLUTELY the target of these investigations. Neither Manafort nor Cohen would have been approached if not for their association with Trump. From the very beginning this has been a political prosecution couched in a ridiculously thinly guised "criminal" investigation.

Trump is not a member of the political class in the US and the political class wants nothing to do with him. He's the ultimate party crasher and they want him gone no matter what lengths they feel they have to go.

Originally Posted by Stephen

A crime is still a crime no matter how big or small. Also that was not what the actual investigation was looking for. they just happened to find it during investigating other things,

But it takes a "High crime or Misdemeanor" for a president to be impeached as per the Constitution, it's not a campaign finance violation when Trump reimbursed Cohen and that's coming from even the Federal Elections Commission.

[Chloé Palmas]

Originally Posted by Damien

Yeah I've say on a jury before and hated it. Judge wanted a unanimous decision there too.

Yeah but if this drags on some, it gets past the midterms and if the counsel still is ongoing then a much weaker house (if the GOP even retain control) will make it easier for Mueller to maneuver. Trump won't be able to issue pardons, as long as the IC / SP remain at the helm. Judges tend to stick to just the case itself, as they should - if they chose to play politics with it all then in situations like this they would drag it all out - not look for a quick verdict by pressuring jurors etc.

I don't think the government will retry the other cases. They got enough to put him to jail for life and there is another, more serious, case to come.

The problem is that with DJ, they decide to forgo any possible attempt to re-try at a later date then so they may as well take it now. Add on as many charges as possible, in the hope of an original sentence being long enough, case the second judge makes the sentences concurrent, not consecutive. (We are all pretty much accepting that he will be found guilty at this point).