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Is this a workaround to record more than 6 channels on cable boxes?
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Old 11-02-2021, 19:31   #1
RichardCoulter
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Is this a workaround to record more than 6 channels on cable boxes?

I've just been told that it is a feature of an MPEG transport stream on DTT, DSAT & DCAB that channels only require one tuner to record if on the same mux.

Does this mean that, if they're on the same mux, we could record, say, 7 programmes at once?
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Old 11-02-2021, 20:19   #2
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Re: Is this a workaround to record more than 6 channels on cable boxes?

Struggle to find one thing to record, let alone 7...
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Old 11-02-2021, 20:25   #3
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Re: Is this a workaround to record more than 6 channels on cable boxes?

Technically this is possible, but I don't think the main providers boxes (Sky, Virgin, Freeview) are set up to allow it. I guess to avoid confusion with non-technically minded customers.

A few years ago, I set up a media server running TVHeadend PVR software with 6 x USB DVB-T receivers. This allowed me to effetively record every single channel at the same time if I wanted to! (There were only 6 DVB-T Muxes at the time).
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Old 11-02-2021, 22:33   #4
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Re: Is this a workaround to record more than 6 channels on cable boxes?

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Originally Posted by Mr K View Post
Struggle to find one thing to record, let alone 7...
I record a lot of radio as well as TV programmes, so find the 6 tuners useful. A way of obtaining an 'extra' tuner would be useful for the odd time that there is a clash with no +1 channel available. In this instance I have to use VOD at present for one of the programmes, but I don't like using it if I can help it.

---------- Post added at 21:33 ---------- Previous post was at 21:25 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by gaz82 View Post
Technically this is possible, but I don't think the main providers boxes (Sky, Virgin, Freeview) are set up to allow it. I guess to avoid confusion with non-technically minded customers.

A few years ago, I set up a media server running TVHeadend PVR software with 6 x USB DVB-T receivers. This allowed me to effetively record every single channel at the same time if I wanted to! (There were only 6 DVB-T Muxes at the time).
Interesting set up!

I've since been told that this was a feature of early DTT PVR's when they were built with only one or two tuners. I only knew about this possibility after someone else told me that their Humax Freeview PVR allows complete recordings using this feature ie it has 3 tuners, but can record 4 programmes! No idea how old it is or which model though.

jj20x has informed me that Tivo's used the feature on VM when recording consecutive programmes from the same channel with overlapping start/end padding:

https://www.forumbox.co.uk/forum/thr...704#post105704

In this case, it was possible to record the overlap at the same time as recording other content from the other tuners. As far as he knows, the feature wasn't carried over to the V6, but can't say for sure.

Anybody?
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Old 11-02-2021, 22:34   #5
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Re: Is this a workaround to record more than 6 channels on cable boxes?

I used to have a Freeview PVR that could do this. But as gaz says, it's confusing
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Old 12-02-2021, 12:57   #6
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Re: Is this a workaround to record more than 6 channels on cable boxes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter View Post
I record a lot of radio as well as TV programmes, so find the 6 tuners useful. A way of obtaining an 'extra' tuner would be useful for the odd time that there is a clash with no +1 channel available. In this instance I have to use VOD at present for one of the programmes, but I don't like using it if I can help it.

---------- Post added at 21:33 ---------- Previous post was at 21:25 ----------



Interesting set up!

I've since been told that this was a feature of early DTT PVR's when they were built with only one or two tuners. I only knew about this possibility after someone else told me that their Humax Freeview PVR allows complete recordings using this feature ie it has 3 tuners, but can record 4 programmes! No idea how old it is or which model though.

jj20x has informed me that Tivo's used the feature on VM when recording consecutive programmes from the same channel with overlapping start/end padding:

https://www.forumbox.co.uk/forum/thr...704#post105704

In this case, it was possible to record the overlap at the same time as recording other content from the other tuners. As far as he knows, the feature wasn't carried over to the V6, but can't say for sure.

Anybody?
Sky HD+ used to record the overlap on both recordings, when setting padding to say 10 mins before and after, when recording consecutive programmes from the same channel.

SkyQ doesn't even allow you to add padding to a recording - progress apparently. So you have to rely on the broadcaster updating the schedule when programmes overrun - some do lots dont
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Old 12-02-2021, 14:21   #7
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Re: Is this a workaround to record more than 6 channels on cable boxes?

The problem on the Original VM Tivo, and presumably on the V6, is that if you have padding on consecutive programmes it uses the order of the user's priority list to decide which one gets the padding and which one cuts into the programme and instead of extending the recording shortens it.

The alternative settings are that it will automatically find another time to record that programme or simply not record at all if it can't.

I'll give an example, from memory , as the above isn't particularly clear.

Under particular scenarios if you recorded Programme 1 at 9pm and Programme 2 at 10pm from the same channel...

On the V+ it would drop the padding on the end of Programme 1 and beginning of Programme 2.

On the Original VM Tivo ( and presumably on V6 if you using all the tuners) all your shows are ranked in order of importance (which the user can reorder). If Programme 2 was higher priority than Programme 1 it would instead of adding 2 minutes to the end of Programme 1 actually remove the 2 minutes so that it was able to add the 2 minutes to Programme 2. So in certain circumstances you could have a show that overran slightly and would've been successful recording it if there wasn't a recording after it, instead end up with even more missing.

In the end, after advice from a high usage VM Tivo user, I set the default to having no padding for Series Links and more carefully planned my recordings.

After upgrading to V6 the increase in tuners means this is less likely to happen, but I immediately set the padding defaults the same anyway. Hence why I said "presumably".

To be clear, I don't completely avoid the padding feature, I just have it set by default to none and only set it for a select few shows, with particular emphasis on channels that regularly run early/late. I also deprioritise shows that are reliably on Catch-Up On-Demand and prioritise those that don't have repeat showings or +1 channels.
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Old 12-02-2021, 15:05   #8
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Re: Is this a workaround to record more than 6 channels on cable boxes?

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Originally Posted by cheekyangus View Post
On the V+ it would drop the padding on the end of Programme 1 and beginning of Programme 2.
In fact from both ends of both programmes
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Old 12-02-2021, 16:38   #9
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Re: Is this a workaround to record more than 6 channels on cable boxes?

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Originally Posted by spiderplant View Post
In fact from both ends of both programmes
Not how I remember it. But it matters not, it's not an active product. I preferred it though, as it was straightforward. I love my V6, but I don't like the padding system.
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Old 12-02-2021, 17:23   #10
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Re: Is this a workaround to record more than 6 channels on cable boxes?

Incidentally, I've just discovered that on a 360 you can record six and watch a 7th.
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Old 12-02-2021, 17:27   #11
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Re: Is this a workaround to record more than 6 channels on cable boxes?

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Originally Posted by spiderplant View Post
Incidentally, I've just discovered that on a 360 you can record six and watch a 7th.
Same as the V6 then
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Old 12-02-2021, 19:02   #12
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Re: Is this a workaround to record more than 6 channels on cable boxes?

If these boxes allow this to be done all the time, does this mean that they must have more rhan the advertised number of tuners then??

---------- Post added at 18:02 ---------- Previous post was at 18:00 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by gaz82 View Post
A few years ago, I set up a media server running TVHeadend PVR software with 6 x USB DVB-T receivers. This allowed me to effetively record every single channel at the same time if I wanted to! (There were only 6 DVB-T Muxes at the time).
Bob Monkhouse would have had a field day
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Old 12-02-2021, 20:50   #13
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Re: Is this a workaround to record more than 6 channels on cable boxes?

Well if you can record 6, and watch a 7th, that would suggest at least 7 tuners in total.
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Old 12-02-2021, 20:50   #14
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Re: Is this a workaround to record more than 6 channels on cable boxes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMcr View Post
Same as the V6 then
Sorry, I meant you can watch a 7th channel - not a 7th recording. Pretty sure the V6 can't do that.

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Originally Posted by RichardCoulter View Post
If these boxes allow this to be done all the time, does this mean that they must have more rhan the advertised number of tuners then??
Yes, they have 8.
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Old 22-02-2021, 23:31   #15
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Re: Is this a workaround to record more than 6 channels on cable boxes?

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Originally Posted by spiderplant View Post
Sorry, I meant you can watch a 7th channel - not a 7th recording. Pretty sure the V6 can't do that.


Yes, they have 8.
You'd think that they'd advertise this fact as a USP and allow people to use them 8f they're in there anyway
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