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Uber licence revoked
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Old 22-09-2017, 12:19   #1
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Uber licence revoked

Quote:
TfL has today informed Uber that it will not be issued with a private hire operator licence.
https://order-order.com/2017/09/22/b...cence-revoked/

Lots of people have effectively just been made redundant, a good mate of mine amongst them. I expect a lengthy and very costly court case to follow and maybe Mayor Khan is banking on this to get him off the hook for the decision.
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Old 22-09-2017, 12:28   #2
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Re: Uber licence revoked

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Originally Posted by Osem View Post
https://order-order.com/2017/09/22/b...cence-revoked/

Lots of people have effectively just been made redundant, a good mate of mine amongst them. I expect a lengthy and very costly court case to follow and maybe Mayor Khan is banking on this to get him off the hook for the decision.
This is an example why Labour is considered to be bad for business and for our economy.

Imagine this lot conducting our Brexit negotiations or 'managing' the economy after our divorce from the EU!

All that was required was to grant Uber a licence and attach the necessary conditions to it. If they fail to abide by the conditions, they should be fined. But to simply ban the company from operating was excessive.
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Old 22-09-2017, 13:16   #3
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Re: Uber licence revoked

Massive decision. It always seemed as if Uber were edging close to this but I never would have thought it could happen. In two minds, On one hand I don't think banning them is helpful on the other I also don't think massive companies should throw their weight around to get past regulations.
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Old 22-09-2017, 13:19   #4
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Re: Uber licence revoked

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Originally Posted by Damien View Post
Massive decision. It always seemed as if Uber were edging close to this but I never would have thought it could happen.
Anyone who lives in London knows that TFL is capable of almost anything. A legal challenge will follow and if TFL lose they'll have to live with it. The public will pay for it whatever the outcome and a lot of them feel TFL isn't fit for purpose.
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Old 22-09-2017, 13:20   #5
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Re: Uber licence revoked

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Originally Posted by Osem View Post
Anyone who lives in London knows that TFL is capable of almost anything. A legal challenge will follow and if TFL lose they'll have to live with it. The public will pay for it whatever the outcome.
I can also see Uber deciding to change some of their policies to get the licence too. Some of TFL's concerns are not unwarranted.
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Old 22-09-2017, 13:34   #6
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Re: Uber licence revoked

I bet fares are on the way up already...
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Old 22-09-2017, 14:08   #7
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Re: Uber licence revoked

It will be a while before Uber actually stop operating, I think a compromise will be found personally. I mean Uber's prices would have been risen eventually - their business model is to operate at a loss to undercut the competition (who aren't backed by venture capital) until the competition is gone at which point they would have a stranglehold.

I do use Uber, find them useful and so cheap, but I do feel conflicted about the way they operate as a business.

I mean there is a touch of arrogance from them about this. The conditions aren't unfair. Have your drivers pass CRB checks, be better and faster in reporting serious allegations in your vehicles and don't use the special software they have to avoid inspectors (they literally have this). Meet those conditions, applied to all other drivers that require a taxi licence, and they can operate.

I should also say that the best thing about Uber is a sense of safety when you're in a foreign city. You know you won't get screwed.

Last edited by Damien; 22-09-2017 at 14:34.
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Old 22-09-2017, 14:55   #8
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Re: Uber licence revoked

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien View Post
Massive decision. It always seemed as if Uber were edging close to this but I never would have thought it could happen. In two minds, On one hand I don't think banning them is helpful on the other I also don't think massive companies should throw their weight around to get past regulations.
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Old 22-09-2017, 15:18   #9
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Re: Uber licence revoked

If the laws are clear enough they can't get around any regulations and if the laws aren't clear enough that's where the courts come in. It may well turn out that TFL is breaking the rules - the appeal result will tell us which...
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Old 22-09-2017, 15:23   #10
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Re: Uber licence revoked

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Originally Posted by Osem View Post
If the laws are clear enough they can't get around any regulations and if the laws aren't clear enough that's where the courts come in. It may well turn out that TFL is breaking the rules - the appeal result will tell us which...
We'll see of course but TFL gets to issue the licences and if they have provisions to qualify then they're probably well within their rights to deny it. I suspect any appeal from Uber would attempt to show they did meet those terms rather than the authority of TFL to issue them.

I would say that the initial reading of the case suggest the rules are pretty clear and Uber didn't follow them. Unless there is something we're missing (i.e Uber did have their riders CRB checked etc) then it seems simple enough. I think this case will become a proxy for people's existing politics rather than the actual merits of this case.

Last edited by Damien; 22-09-2017 at 15:26.
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Old 22-09-2017, 15:31   #11
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Re: Uber licence revoked

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Originally Posted by Damien View Post
We'll see of course but TFL gets to issue the licences and if they have provisions to qualify then they're probably well within their rights to deny it. I suspect any appeal from Uber would attempt to show they did meet those terms rather than the authority of TFL to issue them.

I would say that the initial reading of the case suggest the rules are pretty clear and Uber didn't follow them. Unless there is something we're missing (i.e Uber did have their riders CRB checked etc) then it seems simple enough. I think this case will become a proxy for people's existing politics rather than the actual merits of this case.
If they were crystal clear and Uber just didn't follow them then that'd be pretty stupid surely. IMHO it's more likely to be down to different view about what their responsibilities are and the desire to clarify the applicable law.
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Old 22-09-2017, 15:44   #12
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Re: Uber licence revoked

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Originally Posted by Osem View Post
If they were crystal clear and Uber just didn't follow them then that'd be pretty stupid surely. IMHO it's more likely to be down to different view about what their responsibilities are and the desire to clarify the applicable law.
Yup although it's rather consistent in how they've operated elsewhere...
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Old 22-09-2017, 15:45   #13
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Re: Uber licence revoked

My daughter called a uber cab just once, and never again. The driver spoke no English, got her to write down her destination despite it being on the booking app, drove on the wrong side of a deserted dual carriageway, and tried to drop her off half a mile from her destination gesticulating and muttering in his own language.
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Old 22-09-2017, 15:48   #14
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Re: Uber licence revoked

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Originally Posted by Damien View Post
Yup although it's rather consistent in how they've operated elsewhere...
Yes because there's was an entirely new concept so the law needed clarifying.
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Old 22-09-2017, 16:10   #15
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Re: Uber licence revoked

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Yes because there's was an entirely new concept so the law needed clarifying.
Uber did bring a lot of convenience but I think at it's core it's a taxi service. You can call it via an app rather than a phone call but the fundamental nature of the service the same as Addison Lee or any other taxi service that you don't flag down (which is reserved for the black cabs).

I don't see what is different enough about their service that means they think they do not need criminal record checks for a licence for example. I think it's Uber trying to operate without having to worry about regulations in local markets which would impede their ability to expand aggressively. If they had to abide by London's rules then they have no argument not to do so in Paris, or Budapest, or Oslo. That would be a annoyance to a company who are trying to expand massively and quickly. It's a trend you see in a lot of technology start-ups out of Silicon Valley - a contempt for the laws and regulations of external markets.

They want to hover above local authorities and just be 'a service'. I get the appeal because it's frustrating when we don't get something America has because of the burden of those companies entering a new market but at the same time asking for drivers to have these checks and for crimes to be reported is not unreasonable.

I am not sure how the relation between a law and regulation works. However it seems TFL have a set of conditions applied to a taxi licence which includes the proper reporting of crimes, criminal record checks and whatever that business with the health certificate is. I find it entirely believable Uber have tried to get around that. Although the fact they have software to avoid government inspections makes me think they know what they're doing.


If TFL have done something wrong here I suspect it's that they're lying about Uber not complying to appease black cabs. Not in imposing this conditions.

Last edited by Damien; 22-09-2017 at 16:29.
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