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Old 11-12-2019, 19:08   #7006
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Re: Netflix/Streaming Services

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
I am not confusing anything. I'm afraid you are in denial and your little bubble will burst before long.

It will be interesting to see the content on offer. I might subscribe to this service if there are originals on it and other good dramas that I haven't seen.
Iím unsure how you can describe observable reality as ďdenialĒ and my ďlittle bubbleĒ.

You are the one having your vision skewed by confirmation bias. The world you want to see is streaming as thousands of posts demonstrate on this forum.

Iíve tried multiple times to ask why the basic rules of economics donít apply to streamers. The only way costs come down, after spending £5bn on TV rights, is if Amazon (anyone else) can sell it to substantially more customers. Where are they? This is a basic principle of any service being sold, not just television. Your presumption here is that Sky are bad at understanding price elasticity after 26 years of selling Premiership football as a core part of itís product, retention offers and through Now TV.

They could attempt to cross subsidise, but this would put them at competitive disadvantage against other retailers in their core market who donít have to additionally squeeze hundreds of millions of profits out of their sales.
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Old 11-12-2019, 20:27   #7007
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Re: Netflix/Streaming Services

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post

I’m unsure how you can describe observable reality as “denial” and my “little bubble”.

You are the one having your vision skewed by confirmation bias. The world you want to see is streaming as thousands of posts demonstrate on this forum.

I’ve tried multiple times to ask why the basic rules of economics don’t apply to streamers. The only way costs come down, after spending £5bn on TV rights, is if Amazon (anyone else) can sell it to substantially more customers. Where are they? This is a basic principle of any service being sold, not just television. Your presumption here is that Sky are bad at understanding price elasticity after 26 years of selling Premiership football as a core part of it’s product, retention offers and through Now TV.

They could attempt to cross subsidise, but this would put them at competitive disadvantage against other retailers in their core market who don’t have to additionally squeeze hundreds of millions of profits out of their sales.
The reason I said that is the world seems to pass you by and you don't notice. It's like you are frozen in aspic and powerless to move on.

What you have failed to do is justify your assertion that Sky can stump up for the bigger Premiership rights, but Amazon cannot. And the fact that you always seem to take the view that nothing will happen because it hasn't happened yet. These are hardly well thought out arguments, are they?

By the way, I do think that streaming and on demand viewing are the future, but not just because that appeals to me. I am merely observing the way we are going, and it is strange that you cannot seem to grasp that. Do you really think that when everything goes IPTV that our programmes will still be presented the way they are now, through scheduled channels crammed with advertisements?

I don't think so!
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Old 11-12-2019, 20:50   #7008
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Re: Netflix/Streaming Services

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
The reason I said that is the world seems to pass you by and you don't notice. It's like you are frozen in aspic and powerless to move on.

What you have failed to do is justify your assertion that Sky can stump up for the bigger Premiership rights, but Amazon cannot. And the fact that you always seem to take the view that nothing will happen because it hasn't happened yet. These are hardly well thought out arguments, are they?
You haven’t demonstrated what will change to enable another supplier to enter the market and succeed. Indeed, as I’ve pointed out before, the strategists at Sky correctly predicted a fall in the value of the rights despite the “looming shadow” of Amazon being peddled by the Premier League snake oil salesmen.

The thing is economics, and principles of retailing anything, are largely frozen in time. Streaming is just another mechanism of delivering television - it’s not the revolution you claim it to be and a streamer has to have a viable model just as ITV Digital, Setanta, ESPN and others have tried. Where are the customers?

I have pointed out numerous times that Sky have the customers to be profitable on day 1 of a rights window. Everyone else has to catch up.

Quote:
By the way, I do think that streaming and on demand viewing are the future, but not just because that appeals to me. I am merely observing the way we are going, and it is strange that you cannot seem to grasp that. Do you really think that when everything goes IPTV that our programmes will still be presented the way they are now, through scheduled channels crammed with advertisements?

I don't think so!
And that’s just it - it’s solely your thoughts. No-one has ever had to sit down and watch adverts since PVRs came out. Yet, the observable reality is they do. You see people as simple, straightforward and inclined to do what you prefer. However consumers aren’t a single homogenous group going to wake up tomorrow and decide to stop watching scheduled television.

Last edited by jfman; 11-12-2019 at 20:56.
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Old 11-12-2019, 22:16   #7009
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Re: Netflix/Streaming Services

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
You havenít demonstrated what will change to enable another supplier to enter the market and succeed. Indeed, as Iíve pointed out before, the strategists at Sky correctly predicted a fall in the value of the rights despite the ďlooming shadowĒ of Amazon being peddled by the Premier League snake oil salesmen.

The thing is economics, and principles of retailing anything, are largely frozen in time. Streaming is just another mechanism of delivering television - itís not the revolution you claim it to be and a streamer has to have a viable model just as ITV Digital, Setanta, ESPN and others have tried. Where are the customers?

I have pointed out numerous times that Sky have the customers to be profitable on day 1 of a rights window. Everyone else has to catch up.



And thatís just it - itís solely your thoughts. No-one has ever had to sit down and watch adverts since PVRs came out. Yet, the observable reality is they do. You see people as simple, straightforward and inclined to do what you prefer. However consumers arenít a single homogenous group going to wake up tomorrow and decide to stop watching scheduled television.

Haven't watched adverts for 20 years, don't see any reason to start now.

Watched the Leeds v Hull game yesterday, just like watching at the ground (with exception I watch what I am shown rather than what I want to see) - no action replays at all, no recording so had to wait 15 minutes for the 2nd half.

Progress - I think not!
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Old 11-12-2019, 23:33   #7010
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Re: Netflix/Streaming Services

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
You havenít demonstrated what will change to enable another supplier to enter the market and succeed. Indeed, as Iíve pointed out before, the strategists at Sky correctly predicted a fall in the value of the rights despite the ďlooming shadowĒ of Amazon being peddled by the Premier League snake oil salesmen.

The thing is economics, and principles of retailing anything, are largely frozen in time. Streaming is just another mechanism of delivering television - itís not the revolution you claim it to be and a streamer has to have a viable model just as ITV Digital, Setanta, ESPN and others have tried. Where are the customers?

I have pointed out numerous times that Sky have the customers to be profitable on day 1 of a rights window. Everyone else has to catch up.
What will change is Amazon making a bid. The December trial may just make their minds up.

You have pointed out countless times that we are 'only' talking about a different method of delivery. Nobody is arguing with you on this point. But it will be a completely different experience for those viewers who have never experienced the delights of on demand viewing and streaming. That very change will see off the existing scheduled channels.

---------- Post added at 22:33 ---------- Previous post was at 22:27 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
And thatís just it - itís solely your thoughts. No-one has ever had to sit down and watch adverts since PVRs came out. Yet, the observable reality is they do. You see people as simple, straightforward and inclined to do what you prefer. However consumers arenít a single homogenous group going to wake up tomorrow and decide to stop watching scheduled television.
Of course it's my thoughts, based on observation. That is no revelation, surely? Just as you have been expressing your thoughts.

Your take on how I think is completely inaccurate, but then I have told you that before as well.

It would be a much better use of our time if we were able to simply observe what is happening and try to work out where all this is going, rather than trying to trip up or psychoanalyse each other. Instead of simply pointing out that we disagree, adding a bit of substance as to why would be more illuminating.
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Old 11-12-2019, 23:34   #7011
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Re: Netflix/Streaming Services

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
What will change is Amazon making a bid. The December trial may just make their minds up.

You have pointed out countless times that we are 'only' talking about a different method of delivery. Nobody is arguing with you on this point. But it will be a completely different experience for those viewers who have never experienced the delights of on demand viewing and streaming. That very change will see off the existing scheduled channels.
Live sport over IP is still scheduled TV. It really isn't a completely different experience, it's exactly the same, right down to the commercials that run at half time (yes, Amazon played adverts at half time). Streaming live sport is not a delight, at its best (i.e. when you have sufficient bandwidth) it is exactly the same as watching Sky Sports, you sit down in front of your TV before the match starts, select the appropriate channel from the electronic programme guide (or item from the menu) and open a beer.
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Old 12-12-2019, 10:47   #7012
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Re: Netflix/Streaming Services

BT Sport are now offering a stand alone monthly subscription for £25 a month.
Its available on PC, Samsung smart TV's, Apple TV, Xbox One and PS4.
Its quite costly but not so if you factor in you don't need a TV package of BT broadband to get it now.

https://www.bt.com/sport/monthly-pass
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Old 13-12-2019, 02:11   #7013
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Re: Netflix/Streaming Services

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
Live sport over IP is still scheduled TV. It really isn't a completely different experience, it's exactly the same, right down to the commercials that run at half time (yes, Amazon played adverts at half time). Streaming live sport is not a delight, at its best (i.e. when you have sufficient bandwidth) it is exactly the same as watching Sky Sports, you sit down in front of your TV before the match starts, select the appropriate channel from the electronic programme guide (or item from the menu) and open a beer.
I agree with you to an extent, Chris. Indeed, live sport over IP is scheduled tv. But it is a different experience fot the viewer. We will no longer be accessing live tv via conventional scheduled tv channels. The closest example is if you look at the BBC channels. You can watch live tv either via a scheduled tv channel such as BBC 1 or you can watch it via BBC i-Player, and what is more, you can elect to watch that live programme from the beginning if you want to.

I completely understand that your poor broadband reception will colour your experience. I am lucky enough to have lovely broadband speeds via Virgin Media, but once these speeds are rolled out nationwide, things will look a lot different.
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Old 13-12-2019, 21:20   #7014
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Re: Netflix/Streaming Services

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
Live sport over IP is still scheduled TV. It really isn't a completely different experience, it's exactly the same, right down to the commercials that run at half time (yes, Amazon played adverts at half time). Streaming live sport is not a delight, at its best (i.e. when you have sufficient bandwidth) it is exactly the same as watching Sky Sports, you sit down in front of your TV before the match starts, select the appropriate channel from the electronic programme guide (or item from the menu) and open a beer.
No it's not, it is nothing like watching Sky Sports - where you can record and start when you want, pause when you want a new beer, get action replays of jokey moments etc etc.

Streaming is a backward step for me, NOT an improvement or even as good.
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Old 13-12-2019, 23:36   #7015
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Re: Netflix/Streaming Services

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Originally Posted by Raider999 View Post
No it's not, it is nothing like watching Sky Sports - where you can record and start when you want, pause when you want a new beer, get action replays of jokey moments etc etc.

Streaming is a backward step for me, NOT an improvement or even as good.
You can record to a cloud dvr with HULU, FUBO, SLING too.
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Old 13-12-2019, 23:54   #7016
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Re: Netflix/Streaming Services

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You can record to a cloud dvr with HULU, FUBO, SLING too.
Not much use for us in the UK.
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Old 14-12-2019, 00:18   #7017
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Re: Netflix/Streaming Services

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Not much use for us in the UK.
Lol true but there are ways

I wouldn't be surprised to see dvr recording show up on Nowtv as some content is only available via live channels such as the simpsons.
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Old 14-12-2019, 08:47   #7018
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Re: Netflix/Streaming Services

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Originally Posted by Raider999 View Post
No it's not, it is nothing like watching Sky Sports - where you can record and start when you want, pause when you want a new beer, get action replays of jokey moments etc etc.

Streaming is a backward step for me, NOT an improvement or even as good.
You can start where you want and pause for a beer, and after the live stream, you can still see it on demand if you want to for a limited period. At least that's how BBC i-Player works - I assume that Amazon is the same.
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Old 15-12-2019, 14:06   #7019
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Re: Netflix/Streaming Services

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
You can start where you want and pause for a beer, and after the live stream, you can still see it on demand if you want to for a limited period. At least that's how BBC i-Player works - I assume that Amazon is the same.
Well that doesn't work for watching Red Button streams on Sky Sports (using V6 box)
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Old 15-12-2019, 14:34   #7020
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Re: Netflix/Streaming Services

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Well that doesn't work for watching Red Button streams on Sky Sports (using V6 box)
That may be so, Raider, but you can do it on BBC iPlayer streams, so it is perfectly possible. You can test it for yourself right now. Each BBC channel has its own live stream.
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