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Old 10-02-2019, 16:36   #7516
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick View Post
No sense of smell then. I never said I didn’t read the link, I just didn’t believe the story, big difference, so no whiff of hypocrisy here or in my posts.
Too be fair, your words were that 'you didn't need to read the link' which implies that you had not read it.

Apologies for diverting off tangent.
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Old 10-02-2019, 16:37   #7517
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
The official Government leaflet is irrelevant. It was lawful, didn't breach any spending limits and was pretty ineffective. False equivalence.
Says you?

Nope it isn’t. I’m right. Tax payer funded propaganda vs. Alleged over spending in one unofficial campaign. The referendum result isn’t illegitimate.
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Old 10-02-2019, 19:17   #7518
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick View Post
Says you?

Nope it isn’t. I’m right. Tax payer funded propaganda vs. Alleged over spending in one unofficial campaign. The referendum result isn’t illegitimate.
The leaflet was a legal requirement of the Referendum spelling out both sides of the argument as per Venice Commission rules.

Sadly, whilst the UK government clearly embraced many of the principles of the Venice Commission code, these rules, in line with the advisory status of the referendum, aren’t legally binding, so the government is unfortunately at liberty to choose to ignore another highly relevant Venice Commission rule:

Which calls into question the whole legality of the referendum, let alone blithely carrying on regardless.

This is more for the benefit of other FMs.
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Old 10-02-2019, 20:18   #7519
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angua View Post
The leaflet was a legal requirement of the Referendum spelling out both sides of the argument as per Venice Commission rules.

Sadly, whilst the UK government clearly embraced many of the principles of the Venice Commission code, these rules, in line with the advisory status of the referendum, aren’t legally binding, so the government is unfortunately at liberty to choose to ignore another highly relevant Venice Commission rule:

Which calls into question the whole legality of the referendum, let alone blithely carrying on regardless.

This is more for the benefit of other FMs.
All irrelevant. A Democratic process took place, it must be enacted.
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Old 10-02-2019, 22:24   #7520
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by Damien View Post
I don't see how Brexit helps these local factories though. We've already seen Nissan reduce their investment and even if you don't think Brexit was the prime motivation it's worth pointing out that it's now easier for them to trade with the EU from Japan than it is the UK. Adding tariffs to imports and exports is not going to encourage outside investment from outside the UK, we're not making this a cheaper country with which to do business until such a time that we make up all the existing trade access we've got now.

Dyson is an advocate of leaving but when it comes to business he isn't investing in post-Brexit Britain either.

People blamed the EU for globalisation (which obviously it is ultimately part of) but these are processes that are happening anyway.

If people were (rightly) angry at previous governments for letting these things happen then what will happen to those who sold Brexit as a way to revitalise British manufacturing? And when it comes down to it how confident are you that the governments of the future will focus on those industries as opposed to the banking sector when it comes to trade deals with the United States and the rest?
Why do peopykeep on thinking that the economy was a key factor in the result.............it wasn’t
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Old 11-02-2019, 06:45   #7521
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien View Post
I don't see how Brexit helps these local factories though. We've already seen Nissan reduce their investment and even if you don't think Brexit was the prime motivation it's worth pointing out that it's now easier for them to trade with the EU from Japan than it is the UK. Adding tariffs to imports and exports is not going to encourage outside investment from outside the UK, we're not making this a cheaper country with which to do business until such a time that we make up all the existing trade access we've got now.

Dyson is an advocate of leaving but when it comes to business he isn't investing in post-Brexit Britain either.

People blamed the EU for globalisation (which obviously it is ultimately part of) but these are processes that are happening anyway.

If people were (rightly) angry at previous governments for letting these things happen then what will happen to those who sold Brexit as a way to revitalise British manufacturing? And when it comes down to it how confident are you that the governments of the future will focus on those industries as opposed to the banking sector when it comes to trade deals with the United States and the rest?
All this navel contemplation is pointless. 52% of those voting in the referendum, having heard/read both sides' arguments, voted to leave the EU.

The rest of the bleating is point less and those trying to thwart the Referendum outcome are anti-democratic. The UK is big enough to make its own way in the world as do all the other countries not in the EU.

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Old 11-02-2019, 07:20   #7522
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
Why do peopykeep on thinking that the economy was a key factor in the result.............it wasn’t
Mostly it was to poke in the eye to the government for not listening.

Meanwhile, the reason the referendum was held was just to hold the Tories together.
We will crash out of the EU on 29th March just to stop the Tories losing council seats.

None of which is anything to do with the EU, who oddly enough most MPs of all shades prefer.
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Old 11-02-2019, 08:59   #7523
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Re: Brexit

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d...TM_1Imag_CR1_2
Quote:
A 20 per cent drop in the value of the pound might not be “such a bad thing”, David Davis has claimed as he called for a tax-cutting no-deal budget.

The former Brexit secretary urged Philip Hammond, the chancellor, to draw up tax and spending changes to create a “pro-business, pro-trade, pro-environment” Brexit in the spring.

Writing for The Times Red Box politics site, Mr Davis brushed aside “another doom-laden growth forecast” from Mark Carney, the Bank of England governor, which downgraded predictions for this year from 1.7 per cent to 1.2 per cent.

“If we must leave without a deal then so be it and we can cut our tariffs to zero to help manage short-term disruption,” Mr Davis said.

He argued that a sharp fall in the value of the pound could be a good thing. “Analysts predict that in the event of no deal, sterling could fall by over 20 per cent,” he said.

“Is this such a bad thing? Our goods will become 20 per cent more competitive on the global market and our EU competitors’ goods would be less competitive.” However, it would cost Britons holidaying in Europe much more, while companies importing from Europe would face increased costs.
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Old 11-02-2019, 09:26   #7524
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Re: Brexit

If instead of the Remain side saying that Sterling would fall, they said it would rise, then it would rise, instead of fall.


The markets follow the prediction, NOTHING ELSE. If the prediction is that it will fall, then they have to sell as quickly as they can to get the best price. Guess what happens when they sell? The price of Sterling goes down making it FALSELY look as though the prediction was right. It was the ANTICIPATION of a fall that created the fall. Not only that, but once the price has bottomed out, they can buy back Sterling at a LOWER price, thereby ending up with MORE money than they started out with.
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Old 11-02-2019, 10:15   #7525
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
If instead of the Remain side saying that Sterling would fall, they said it would rise, then it would rise, instead of fall.


The markets follow the prediction, NOTHING ELSE. If the prediction is that it will fall, then they have to sell as quickly as they can to get the best price. Guess what happens when they sell? The price of Sterling goes down making it FALSELY look as though the prediction was right. It was the ANTICIPATION of a fall that created the fall. Not only that, but once the price has bottomed out, they can buy back Sterling at a LOWER price, thereby ending up with MORE money than they started out with.
Sterling is not Bitcoin.

If this were true that sterling would have eventually recovered in the two years following the vote as people would think the underlying value of the currency is stronger than the speculators think. It didn't.

Speculation is only part of what drives currency and stock markets. There are other types of investors who make longer term bets and valuations of what they're buying. The currency market itself is also driven by the performance of the underlying economy and the companies within it, the economic policies of the central bank/government in charge of it and the confidence people have in the stability of the government.

It's hard to precisely value a currency, people a look more experienced than us find it hard to do, but it's just not all random speculation. Some of it is but those people do short term bets.
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Old 11-02-2019, 10:33   #7526
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
A 20 per cent drop in the value of the pound might not be “such a bad thing”, David Davis has claimed as he called for a tax-cutting no-deal budget.

The former Brexit secretary urged Philip Hammond, the chancellor, to draw up tax and spending changes to create a “pro-business, pro-trade, pro-environment” Brexit in the spring.

Writing for The Times Red Box politics site, Mr Davis brushed aside “another doom-laden growth forecast” from Mark Carney, the Bank of England governor, which downgraded predictions for this year from 1.7 per cent to 1.2 per cent.

“If we must leave without a deal then so be it and we can cut our tariffs to zero to help manage short-term disruption,” Mr Davis said.

He argued that a sharp fall in the value of the pound could be a good thing. “Analysts predict that in the event of no deal, sterling could fall by over 20 per cent,” he said.

“Is this such a bad thing? Our goods will become 20 per cent more competitive on the global market and our EU competitors’ goods would be less competitive.” However, it would cost Britons holidaying in Europe much more, while companies importing from Europe would face increased costs.
Yes, David, our exports will become 20% more competitive. However, the UK is not a primary manufacturer, we need to import parts and raw materials to make finished goods and they will be 20% more expensive. Let's also ignore the tariff and non-tariff trade barriers too...
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Old 11-02-2019, 12:30   #7527
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Writing for The Times Red Box politics site, Mr Davis brushed aside “another doom-laden growth forecast” from Mark Carney, the Bank of England governor, which downgraded predictions for this year from 1.7 per cent to 1.2 per cent.
UK economic growth slowest since 2012

Quote:
The UK economy expanded at its slowest annual rate in six years in 2018 after a sharp contraction in December.

Growth in the year was 1.4%, down from 1.8% in 2017 and the slowest rate since 2012, the Office for National Statistics (ONS) said.
Can someone tell Mr Davis?
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Last edited by Paul M; 11-02-2019 at 17:30. Reason: Glitch, not relevant to the topic as such.
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Old 11-02-2019, 12:49   #7528
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by ianch99 View Post
Can someone tell Mr Davis?
Can someone tell ianch99 that the worlds economies are also not very stable either
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Old 11-02-2019, 13:01   #7529
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 View Post



Can someone tell Mr Davis?
You need telling yourself - You post as if it's all to do with Brexit and nothing else - it isn't.

You do know there is a German Recession?

Also....
  • Ireland is in trouble, Italy also in recession. these are EU Member States..... No comment on these troubling times in the corrupted EU and it's economic bubble ???
  • No comment on the absolute dire youth unemployment in Greece, not far off 50%?!?!?!?!
  • And the corrupted EU appears to be doing bugger all about it.
  • No comment on Protesters in France having their hands blown off by Macron's heavy handed tactics at the weekend, I've seen footage of old people being beaten around the head by heavy handed police forces, some vehicles with the EU flag on, is this what the EU represents, utter disgusting violence being levied against it's citizens in a perfectly legitimate democratic process???

It is not looking at all rosy in the disgusting and corrupted, dictatorship EU, at the moment.

Anti-EU Sentiment is rising sharply. As it should for the Anti-Democratic and corrupted EU.
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Old 11-02-2019, 13:43   #7530
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien View Post
Sterling is not Bitcoin.

If this were true that sterling would have eventually recovered in the two years following the vote as people would think the underlying value of the currency is stronger than the speculators think. It didn't.

Speculation is only part of what drives currency and stock markets. There are other types of investors who make longer term bets and valuations of what they're buying. The currency market itself is also driven by the performance of the underlying economy and the companies within it, the economic policies of the central bank/government in charge of it and the confidence people have in the stability of the government.

It's hard to precisely value a currency, people a look more experienced than us find it hard to do, but it's just not all random speculation. Some of it is but those people do short term bets.
When I asked my accountant and Financial Adviser what the likely outcome would be to the pound in the event of a no deal Brexit, both said that, in reality, nobody knows.

As a result, they are advising people to hedge their bets.
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