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Old 10-02-2019, 11:10   #7501
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 View Post
Just because you think something will be a disaster does not make it so.
But equally and by your own logic it may well be

---------- Post added at 11:10 ---------- Previous post was at 11:08 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy View Post
If you think something is going to be a disaster for your country wouldn't you be a traitor to blithely go along with it
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Old 10-02-2019, 11:16   #7502
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by TheDaddy View Post
If you think something is going to be a disaster for your country wouldn't you be a traitor to blithely go along with it
Doesn't that include voting Labour?
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Old 10-02-2019, 11:41   #7503
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth View Post
To others, disaster is seeing your town decimated by the local industries/factories closing and re-opening in a country where the labour and costs are much cheaper.

I think previous Governments have a lot to answer for, and many 'leave' voters were probably of a mind where being in the EU was already a 'life changing' disaster for them and their families/community

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, or wishing to start more silly arguements involving statistics, JLR, Dyson et al. Just saying that for some people a fresh start probably gives them better hope for the future than continuing in a downward spiral.
I don't see how Brexit helps these local factories though. We've already seen Nissan reduce their investment and even if you don't think Brexit was the prime motivation it's worth pointing out that it's now easier for them to trade with the EU from Japan than it is the UK. Adding tariffs to imports and exports is not going to encourage outside investment from outside the UK, we're not making this a cheaper country with which to do business until such a time that we make up all the existing trade access we've got now.

Dyson is an advocate of leaving but when it comes to business he isn't investing in post-Brexit Britain either.

People blamed the EU for globalisation (which obviously it is ultimately part of) but these are processes that are happening anyway.

If people were (rightly) angry at previous governments for letting these things happen then what will happen to those who sold Brexit as a way to revitalise British manufacturing? And when it comes down to it how confident are you that the governments of the future will focus on those industries as opposed to the banking sector when it comes to trade deals with the United States and the rest?
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Old 10-02-2019, 12:37   #7504
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by Damien View Post
I don't see how Brexit helps these local factories though. We've already seen Nissan reduce their investment and even if you don't think Brexit was the prime motivation it's worth pointing out that it's now easier for them to trade with the EU from Japan than it is the UK. Adding tariffs to imports and exports is not going to encourage outside investment from outside the UK, we're not making this a cheaper country with which to do business until such a time that we make up all the existing trade access we've got now.

Dyson is an advocate of leaving but when it comes to business he isn't investing in post-Brexit Britain either.

People blamed the EU for globalisation (which obviously it is ultimately part of) but these are processes that are happening anyway.

If people were (rightly) angry at previous governments for letting these things happen then what will happen to those who sold Brexit as a way to revitalise British manufacturing? And when it comes down to it how confident are you that the governments of the future will focus on those industries as opposed to the banking sector when it comes to trade deals with the United States and the rest?
Worth making the point here that Economists for Brexit has stated that Brexit will lead to the end of manufacturing in the UK. https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news...leave-11269819
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Old 10-02-2019, 12:40   #7505
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by Angua View Post
Does seem odd that people are happy to support a result, when even the source of the £8 million donation by Aaron Banks is still unknown. A referendum that legally had to be advisory rather than binding in order to get the ballot past the judiciary.
Here you go again with the one sided angle again trying in vain to delegitimise a perfectly legitimate result.

Any comments on the £9 Million tax funded pro-Remain government leaflet sent to every house in UK ?
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Old 10-02-2019, 12:54   #7506
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by Mick View Post
Here you go again with the one sided angle again trying in vain to delegitimise a perfectly legitimate result.

Any comments on the £9 Million tax funded pro-Remain government leaflet sent to every house in UK ?
I know you will never accept the fact that legally the referendum had to be advisory. Nor will you accept people have changed their minds, or that there is no consensus between leave voters about what their version of leave meant.



Does not change the reality.
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Old 10-02-2019, 12:58   #7507
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy View Post
If you think something is going to be a disaster for your country wouldn't you be a traitor to blithely go along with it
This is highly irrelevant. Most of the MPs campaigned on Manifestos to honour the Referendum result and to be elected on that premise and then go against it is unacceptable. So to answer your irrelevant question, the answer is most definitely and categorically, no.

---------- Post added at 12:58 ---------- Previous post was at 12:56 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angua View Post
I know you will never accept the fact that legally the referendum had to be advisory. Nor will you accept people have changed their minds, or that there is no consensus between leave voters about what their version of leave meant.



Does not change the reality.
You seriously trying to argue your case with crap poll data ?
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Old 10-02-2019, 13:03   #7508
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick View Post
This is highly irrelevant. Most of the MPs campaigned on Manifestos to honour the Referendum result and to be elected on that premise and then go against it is unacceptable. So to answer your irrelevant question, the answer is most definitely and categorically, no.
So MPs should blithely support their parties manifestos, even though the reality is not what they were expecting, or what in good conscience they can continue to support based on updated information.

---------- Post added at 14:03 ---------- Previous post was at 14:00 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick View Post
This is highly irrelevant. Most of the MPs campaigned on Manifestos to honour the Referendum result and to be elected on that premise and then go against it is unacceptable. So to answer your irrelevant question, the answer is most definitely and categorically, no.

---------- Post added at 12:58 ---------- Previous post was at 12:56 ----------



You seriously trying to argue your case with crap poll data ?
Just used it to point out how many options there are and that not everyone who voted leave expected the same outcome. But hey, I have learned I will get nothing but derision from you.
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Old 10-02-2019, 13:04   #7509
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angua View Post
So MPs should blithely support their parties manifestos, even though the reality is not what they were expecting, or what in good conscience they can continue to support based on updated information.
There is no updated information. Except the over dramatic scare stories from Remainers.
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Old 10-02-2019, 13:09   #7510
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees View Post
But equally and by your own logic it may well be

---------- Post added at 11:10 ---------- Previous post was at 11:08 ----------



Correct but equally it would not make you a traitor to blithely go along with it.

I don't believe it will be, there are others who believe it will. Neither can be described as traitors because of what they believe.
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Old 10-02-2019, 13:17   #7511
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angua View Post
So MPs should blithely support their parties manifestos, even though the reality is not what they were expecting, or what in good conscience they can continue to support based on updated information.

---------- Post added at 14:03 ---------- Previous post was at 14:00 ----------



Just used it to point out how many options there are and that not everyone who voted leave expected the same outcome. But hey, I have learned I will get nothing but derision from you.
Perhaps you should stop posting one sided arguments all the time that are easily derided, I see you have completely ignored the issue of the Tax payer funded pro-Remain leaflet. Typical.
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Old 10-02-2019, 14:04   #7512
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick View Post
Perhaps you should stop posting one sided arguments all the time that are easily derided, I see you have completely ignored the issue of the Tax payer funded pro-Remain leaflet. Typical.
The official Government leaflet is irrelevant. It was lawful, didn't breach any spending limits and was pretty ineffective. False equivalence.
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Old 10-02-2019, 14:13   #7513
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick View Post
There is no updated information. Except the over dramatic scare stories from Remainers.
Manifestos are only as good as the day they are printed. They are not guarantees of what a party will do, merely each parties hope for what they might do when in government.

The Tories have already dropped many of their manifesto pledges since 2017.
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Old 10-02-2019, 16:19   #7514
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick View Post
Perhaps you should stop posting one sided arguments all the time that are easily derided, I see you have completely ignored the issue of the Tax payer funded pro-Remain leaflet. Typical.
Coming from the man who completely ignored facts not so long ago in this thread by declaring the fact he didnít need to read a link.

Thereís more than a whiff of utter hypocrisy about the above post
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Old 10-02-2019, 16:34   #7515
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees View Post
Coming from the man who completely ignored facts not so long ago in this thread by declaring the fact he didnít need to read a link.

Thereís more than a whiff of utter hypocrisy about the above post
No sense of smell then. I never said I didnít read the link, I just didnít believe the story, big difference, so no whiff of hypocrisy here or in my posts.
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