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Old 01-07-2018, 19:43   #46
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Re: Brexit Discussion (New thread-Follow First Post Rules!)

Thats my point we voted to leave not get the best deal possible, Cameron already tried that before calling the referendum and was told to take the long walk.

All the EU is trying to do is stall the UK into project fear and managing to get a few large firms backing with threats to leave. Probably offered back handers from those dark shadows that float about the EU.

I agree it's about time we start telling the EU what we want not what they want
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Old 01-07-2018, 19:43   #47
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Re: Brexit Discussion (New thread-Follow First Post Rules!)

you falling for the unicorn argument OB why you think Boris said f business and hunt telling them to shut up weren't they supposed to be party of business and why you think we got lowest growth in g7 when we were near top before referendum result and why you think businesses are looking at relocating to Europe

Last edited by Dave42; 01-07-2018 at 19:58.
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Old 01-07-2018, 19:50   #48
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Re: Brexit Discussion (New thread-Follow First Post Rules!)

Just go for the Hard Brexit then the EU negotiate against it
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Old 01-07-2018, 20:11   #49
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Re: Brexit Discussion (New thread-Follow First Post Rules!)

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Theresa May will not agree to present both options to the EU because the customs partnership option involves remaining in the customs union, which means we can't do our own trade deals. This isn't even an option, as it strips away the advantage for us in leaving the EU - in fact, it leaves us in a worse position than we have now. How does that make sense for the UK?
It doesn't - but then again leaving the EU in any sense didn't, either. So in that sense, it is fitting that that May continues on with the absurdities.

How does it make sense for the EU to allow a nation outside of the EU to have friction less trade but make their own trade deals?

Make trade deals, fine - but you won't get friction less trade + you will have to accept a hard border in Ireland. You are right, the EU will not punish the UK...it will force the UK to chose how to hurt itself.

On the whole "present 2 plans" aspect I only meant in regards to procedure / process, not the merits. All I was asking is that I wasn't sure if it could be done with a white paper is all - I had no interest in hearing the talking points of the merits, yet in more time. That argument has been made, over and over.

I was just curious as to the procedural hurdles.
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Old 01-07-2018, 20:11   #50
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Re: Brexit Discussion (New thread-Follow First Post Rules!)

Hopefully, he will be cleared and the National Crime Agency will find him innocent of all charges and Russian influence.

Quote:
National Crime Agency examines Russian link to Arron Banks
The National Crime Agency (NCA) is examining evidence of new Russian links to Arron Banks, the Brexit campaign’s largest donor.
The crime-fighting agency has been handed a cache of the millionaire businessman’s emails that reveal undisclosed meetings between him and the Russian ambassador in London.
The leaked communications show that Banks was offered three Russian business deals during the Brexit campaign — two more than previously thought — including a gold mine venture in Guinea, west Africa, and a lucrative stake in the privatisation of Alrosa, Russia’s state-controlled diamond miner.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/n...anks-962cct78b (subscription, original article)
Non-subscription, citing The Sunday Times article. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8425321.html
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Old 01-07-2018, 20:25   #51
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Re: Brexit Discussion (New thread-Follow First Post Rules!)

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Originally Posted by Dave42 View Post
hard Brexit will be a utter disaster for uk falling of cliff edge and the ones that voted Brexit be first ones to complain
OB has logically and cogently explained what would happen should sense prevail. Simply saying that a hard Brexit will be an utter disaster has no merit until you can refute OBís logic.
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Old 01-07-2018, 20:45   #52
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Re: Brexit Discussion (New thread-Follow First Post Rules!)

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Originally Posted by Dave42 View Post
you falling for the unicorn argument OB why you think Boris said f business and hunt telling them to shut up weren't they supposed to be party of business and why you think we got lowest growth in g7 when we were near top before referendum result and why you think businesses are looking at relocating to Europe
Unicorns never existed and I have never believed in them, Dave.

The reason that big business should shut the hell up is because they are undermining our ability to negotiate a sensible deal with the EU.

The reason our growth rate has lowered following the referendum is entirely due to the uncertainty all this has caused. Business hates uncertainty. But once a decision is made, you can look forward to growth rates soaring.

Some businesses are looking to relocate to Europe, but they are in the minority.

It will be clear five years from now that leaving the EU was the best decision the UKMhas made in modern times.
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Old 01-07-2018, 21:00   #53
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Re: Brexit Discussion (New thread-Follow First Post Rules!)

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Theresa May will not agree to present both options to the EU because the customs partnership option involves remaining in the customs union, which means we can't do our own trade deals. This isn't even an option, as it strips away the advantage for us in leaving the EU - in fact, it leaves us in a worse position than we have now. How does that make sense for the UK?
If you recall, Theresa May's favoured solution is the customs partnership one. The hard Brexiters like Gove favour the £20bn-a-year proposal aka MaxFax. He actually ripped up Theresa May's document on the customs partnership recently. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44668572
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Old 01-07-2018, 21:09   #54
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Re: Brexit Discussion (New thread-Follow First Post Rules!)

While we're all busy baiting each other over Brexit, all the stories about what is actually wrong with the EU are not reported. Or reported and ignored.

http://www.cityam.com/288405/angela-...her-own-making
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Old 01-07-2018, 21:15   #55
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Re: Brexit Discussion (New thread-Follow First Post Rules!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
If you recall, Theresa May's favoured solution is the customs partnership one. The hard Brexiters like Gove favour the £20bn-a-year proposal aka MaxFax. He actually ripped up Theresa May's document on the customs partnership recently. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44668572
The £20 billion figure was a flat calculation across the business board of the amount of time, hence cost, the paperwork etc would require. It ignored efficiencies that could be introduced, or slack time taken up and was another Project Fear ruse.

As I said, OB has laid it out logically and that has not yet been refuted.
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Old 01-07-2018, 21:18   #56
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Re: Brexit Discussion (New thread-Follow First Post Rules!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
If you recall, Theresa May's favoured solution is the customs partnership one. The hard Brexiters like Gove favour the £20bn-a-year proposal aka MaxFax. He actually ripped up Theresa May's document on the customs partnership recently. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44668572
And the EU have said Max_Fac is not a likely option...

http://www.businessinsider.com/phili...esa-may-2018-5
Quote:
In comments which have already prompted anger from the Conservative backbenches, Hammond told BI that the EU has an "in principle" objection to the Brexiteers' favoured "max fac" option.

"The EU negotiators have an objection in principle to the so-called max-fac option. And that is that it requires an exemption for small traders across the Irish border, which they object to," Hammond told BI.
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Old 01-07-2018, 21:18   #57
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Re: Brexit Discussion (New thread-Follow First Post Rules!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
While we're all busy baiting each other over Brexit, all the stories about what is actually wrong with the EU are not reported. Or reported and ignored.

http://www.cityam.com/288405/angela-...her-own-making
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44646775
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Old 01-07-2018, 21:25   #58
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Re: Brexit Discussion (New thread-Follow First Post Rules!)

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Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
Quote:
Deutsche Bank's US division has failed the second round of the Federal Reserve's annual two-stage stress tests, designed to assess how well the sector could withstand another financial crisis.
You know, the US division that loaned money to Trump when no US bank would...
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Old 01-07-2018, 21:27   #59
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Re: Brexit Discussion (New thread-Follow First Post Rules!)

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https://www.socialeurope.eu/eu-takes...ill-ever-learn
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Old 01-07-2018, 21:30   #60
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Re: Brexit Discussion (New thread-Follow First Post Rules!)

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While we're all busy baiting each other over Brexit, all the stories about what is actually wrong with the EU are not reported. Or reported and ignored.

http://www.cityam.com/288405/angela-...her-own-making
That raises another point. The EU is busy tearing itself apart or something approaching that over the immigration question. Their fudge will likely unravel as true colours are shown.

Main thing thatís wrong with the EU is German hegemony made possible by their engineering of the Euroís value through allowing Greece, Portugal and Italy in despite their true financial situation.

The other thing thatís hopelessly wrong is the French veto on CAP reform. Thereís more but I canít be bothered to expand the list.

So far the remainers in this thread have kept clear of addressing these faults.
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