Government & Post Election Discussion - Page 80

OLD BOY · 13-03-2018, 08:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I doubt the public will be happy with the £2bn we've spent on Brexit which could have been spent on the NHS and helped bankrupt Conservative councils. Nor will they believe that we will sign free trade deals with the USA, Russia etc so I suspect that positive reaction may be some time coming.

https://www.ft.com/content/5a47caec-...e-cc62a39d57a0

You know as well as I do, Andrew, that you need to look no further than the Labour Party to remember who, ultimately, is responsible for austerity in this country.

£2bn is well worth paying to extracate ourselves from the disaster that is the EU. The next downturn will see more EU countries struggling and needing bailouts. We don't want to get embroiled in that - which will cost a darn sight more than £2bn.

First you complain that the Conservatives are not doing their homework on Brexit, then you complain because they obviously are!

1andrew1 · 13-03-2018, 11:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

First you complain that the Conservatives are not doing their homework on Brexit, then you complain because they obviously are!

Re-read my post Old Boy. You will see it says nothing about criticising the Government for its preparations. We were both discussing the public's attitude at the next election. My post says "I doubt the public will be happy with the £2bn we've spent on Brexit which could have been spent on the NHS and helped bankrupt Conservative councils."

OLD BOY · 13-03-2018, 13:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Re-read my post Old Boy. You will see it says nothing about criticising the Government for its preparations. We were both discussing the public's attitude at the next election. My post says "I doubt the public will be happy with the £2bn we've spent on Brexit which could have been spent on the NHS and helped bankrupt Conservative councils."

That's nothing compared with the benefits of leaving the EU, Andrew. Anyway, I don't believe the eventual savings made will go to the NHS. Our health and social care services need a total re-think and overhaul. No more throwing good money after bad.

1andrew1 · 13-03-2018, 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

That's nothing compared with the benefits of leaving the EU, Andrew. Anyway, I don't believe the eventual savings made will go to the NHS. Our health and social care services need a total re-think and overhaul. No more throwing good money after bad.

There are no savings and the EU will get to make new trade deals with countries like Australia whilst we're still arguing over the Irish border!

OLD BOY · 14-03-2018, 08:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

There are no savings and the EU will get to make new trade deals with countries like Australia whilst we're still arguing over the Irish border!

Of course there will be savings. Although we will end up using some of that money to continue those grants, etc that we wish to keep paying (for example, subsidies to farmers).

You seriously underestimate the scope we have for new trade deals and you greatly overestimate the loss in trade we will experience by leaving the EU. But I suppose that only the reality of what actually happens in the end will shake you from this chronic negativity that seems to have consumed you. I am sure you will be pleasantly surprised in the end, Andrew, but I don't think anyone can say anything to you to get you to look at the disadvantages of staying in and the advantages of pulling out.

I had great expectations of Europe when we joined the Common Market but it has become a bureaucratic nightmare which has resulted in a disincentive to enterprise. You've only got to look at the new General Data Protection Regulation that comes into effect in May to understand the impact this organisation of Eurocrats is having on small and medium sized businesses, and even the voluntary sector. This bunch of wreckers will completely stifle innovation, enthusiasm and risk taking, thus sucking the wealth out of economies.

We will be well out of it, believe me!

Carth · 15-03-2018, 13:24

The new GDPR stuff is already unsettling people who manage forums like this one, it's getting to be ridiculous when you think of all the data being gathered & sold by the 'big' boys anyway

I started a general motor insurance quote online the other day, just for a rough figure of what my daughter would pay for a 1.25 fiesta . . . all went well until they 'required' my email address and phone number. Bugger that, just let the computer put a figure up on the web page . .

1andrew1 · 15-03-2018, 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth

The new GDPR stuff is already unsettling people who manage forums like this one, it's getting to be ridiculous when you think of all the data being gathered & sold by the 'big' boys anyway

I started a general motor insurance quote online the other day, just for a rough figure of what my daughter would pay for a 1.25 fiesta . . . all went well until they 'required' my email address and phone number. Bugger that, just let the computer put a figure up on the web page . .

That request for your details is nowt to do with GDPR and everything to do with the company chasing you if you don't take up the policy they've quoted for.

Carth · 16-03-2018, 11:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

That request for your details is nowt to do with GDPR and everything to do with the company chasing you if you don't take up the policy they've quoted for.

I'm not saying it is GDPR, I'm merely mentioning that everyone suddenly 'needs' your email address, home address and phone numbers. In some cases it can be justified (but all they get is my spam email address, nothing more), in other cases I simply close the page down as I consider them to be fishing for info they don't need.

Mr K · 16-03-2018, 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth

I'm not saying it is GDPR, I'm merely mentioning that everyone suddenly 'needs' your email address, home address and phone numbers. In some cases it can be justified (but all they get is my spam email address, nothing more), in other cases I simply close the page down as I consider them to be fishing for info they don't need.

I don't even give them a spam email address, just make it and tel no up, they need none of this to give a quote. (and use a browser 'private mode'). Even address - as long as the postcode in your general locality that should be enough. Of course if you end up buying you'll need to supply details, but that will be a separate quote preferably via a cashback site, making sure all marketing opt outs are selected. People just give their details too easily and then are outraged when they are bombarded by junk mail and calls. Personal info is valuable and can, and is, sold.

1andrew1 · 16-03-2018, 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K

I don't even give them a spam email address, just make it and tel no up, they need none of this to give a quote. (and use a browser 'private mode'). Even address - as long as the postcode in your general locality that should be enough. Of course if you end up buying you'll need to supply details, but that will be a separate quote preferably via a cashback site, making sure all marketing opt outs are selected. People just give their details too easily and then are outraged when they are bombarded by junk mail and calls. Personal info is valuable and can, and is, sold.

The good thing about GDPR is the company from 25/5 can only legally use your data for the purpose you allow it to be used for. It can't add a general use for direct marketing into its terms and conditions; this has to be explicitly requested and the individual needs to tick an explicit box to agree to it. A ticked box is not a default option.

OLD BOY · 16-03-2018, 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

The good thing about GDPR is the company from 25/5 can only legally use your data for the purpose you allow it to be used for. It can't add a general use for direct marketing into its terms and conditions; this has to be explicitly requested and the individual needs to tick an explicit box to agree to it. A ticked box is not a default option.

True, but the problem with the GDPR is the bureaucracy of it all. Instead of laying down how organisations have to process their data, they make every organisation, even small voluntary ones, set it out themselves. They have multiplied the amount of work required in setting this legislation by millions of times.

Why could they not have set out the requirements on the treatment of data in legislation, instead of requiring everyone to have a policy, and instead of having a privacy notice for every organisation, why don't they set out the principles in an annex?

It's a very large sledgehammer to crack a very small nut, actually, and it's yet another example of how much worse the red tape is within the EU.

...And don't get me started on the Acquired Rights Directive!

1andrew1 · 17-03-2018, 00:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

True, but the problem with the GDPR is the bureaucracy of it all. Instead of laying down how organisations have to process their data, they make every organisation, even small voluntary ones, set it out themselves. They have multiplied the amount of work required in setting this legislation by millions of times.

Why could they not have set out the requirements on the treatment of data in legislation, instead of requiring everyone to have a policy, and instead of having a privacy notice for every organisation, why don't they set out the principles in an annex?

It's a very large sledgehammer to crack a very small nut, actually, and it's yet another example of how much worse the red tape is within the EU.

...And don't get me started on the Acquired Rights Directive!

It all makes good sense to me. The world changes with technology and yes that means more legislation. Sorry, that's progress, we can't freeze ourselves in the 1970s as much as JC and other Brexiters would like us to.
But compared to the red tape that dealing with countries when outside the EU will entail, we've got it easy now.

OLD BOY · 17-03-2018, 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

It all makes good sense to me. The world changes with technology and yes that means more legislation. Sorry, that's progress, we can't freeze ourselves in the 1970s as much as JC and other Brexiters would like us to.
But compared to the red tape that dealing with countries when outside the EU will entail, we've got it easy now.

Legislation does not have to be onerous, Andrew. This is way over the top, and as I said, they could achieve the same result by setting out approved practices in law.

1andrew1 · 17-03-2018, 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Legislation does not have to be onerous, Andrew. This is way over the top, and as I said, they could achieve the same result by setting out approved practices in law.

Hasn't been onerous for me, it's just an update to existing legislation. Plenty of consultants out there probably putting the fear of God into people. For most, a few principles will see them through. No need to nanny-state people.

OLD BOY · 18-03-2018, 00:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Hasn't been onerous for me, it's just an update to existing legislation. Plenty of consultants out there probably putting the fear of God into people. For most, a few principles will see them through. No need to nanny-state people.

No, it's not. This is a new layer of red tape for small organisations to bear which was not there before. Small organisations did not have to issue privacy notices prior to this legislation, for example.

In any case, this is a perverse piece of legislation that requires all organisations to splurge out the same mantra that could have been set out in law.

I'm glad that you are comfortable with this, Andrew. Clearly, you are not trying to run a small business. I have already seen at first hand the disincentive that this has created.