Brexit (Old)

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Mr K

It would be quite simple, accept the proposed deal or reject it, - 2 options, most can cope with that.

If rejected the Govt. would have to renegotiate or come up with a better plan. It wouldn't automatically mean the end of your beloved Brexit.

No, it would not mean that. It would be a hard Brexit. Is that what you want?

Do you seriously expect that we can get a better deal than Theresa gets when she is pushing the boundaries already? Really?

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Originally Posted by Hugh

Try a google search on my phrase...

Er, which phrase are you talking about? There have been so many .

[Dave42]

Brexit news: Three more ministers set to quit as Theresa May faces fresh turmoil
EXCLUSIVE: Sources say three ministers are in “advanced talks” to follow his lead and plunge Theresa May’s government into fresh turmoil

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...sters-13566895

Four UK ministers on verge of quitting, EU rejects latest plan - Sunday Times

https://uk.reuters.com/article/brita...XL0UM?rpc=401&

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Well I have sort of said we need to go back to the people if the politicians have failed us.

P.S. Nothing wrong with saying what's on your mind, you're as articulate and intelligent as anyone on here, but sometimes you have to come off the fence...

Not on the fence at all Mr K as l don't believe we should have another referendum but that does not mean anybody or anything should be exempt from criticism unlike one or two on here who lickspittle and take umbrage at a differing view or opinion on here from others.

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY

You can't just sit on the fence criticising, Den. That's the easiest option.

If you think the government is handling this badly, what would your definition be of handling it well?

No fence sitting from me OB as l have stated all along what a complete shambles this government has been since the referendum vote and nothing they have done since has altered that view at all as to put it frankly HMG could not organise a piss up in a brewery and that is being kind to them.

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY

We are facing a hostile EU, whom Theresa is dragging into a situation they want to be in. At the same time, TM has to sort out the border issue, the remainers, her own party, and parliament. She's working against the odds - don't you think it's time we gave her a little slack?

Here we go again blame the EU for the complete omnishambles in this country since the referendum as l am not saying the EU are not culpable in many ways in a good many things but stop lickspittling to Theresa May all the time as you need to take off your rose tinted glasses for once come into the real world of reality.

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Originally Posted by Dave42

Brexit news: Three more ministers set to quit as Theresa May faces fresh turmoil
EXCLUSIVE: Sources say three ministers are in “advanced talks” to follow his lead and plunge Theresa May’s government into fresh turmoil

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...sters-13566895

Four UK ministers on verge of quitting, EU rejects latest plan - Sunday Times

https://uk.reuters.com/article/brita...XL0UM?rpc=401&

If you have open civil war within a incumbent government then its just a matter of time before that government collapses.

[Angua]

The rightwing pressure group the TaxPayers’ Alliance has conceded that it illegally sacked the whistleblower Shahmir Sanni for revealing unlawful overspending in the Brexit referendum campaign, in a case that could have a major impact on how lobbyists are described in the media.

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Originally Posted by denphone

Not on the fence at all Mr K as l don't believe we should have another referendum but that does not mean anybody or anything should be exempt from criticism unlike one or two on here who lickspittle and take umbrage at a differing view or opinion on here from others.

---------- Post added at 05:53 ---------- Previous post was at 05:49 ----------



No fence sitting from me OB as l have stated all along what a complete shambles this government has been since the referendum vote and nothing they have done since has altered that view at all as to put it frankly HMG could not organise a piss up in a brewery and that is being kind to them.

---------- Post added at 06:02 ---------- Previous post was at 05:53 ----------



Here we go again blame the EU for the complete omnishambles in this country since the referendum as l am not saying the EU are not culpable in many ways in a good many things but stop lickspittling to Theresa May all the time as you need to take off your rose tinted glasses for once come into the real world of reality.

---------- Post added at 06:08 ---------- Previous post was at 06:02 ----------



If you have open civil war within a incumbent government then its just a matter of time before that government collapses.

As i have pointed out before. The Referendum was Cameron's attempt to unite the increasingly fractured Tory party. It is clearly not having the desired result and the country is suffering as a result.

[1andrew1]

I think people today will be facing up to a couple of Brexit realities:

1. There is no strong and stable government in place at the moment and things are likely to worsen. It really is a case of Carry on Brexit.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...sters-13566895

2. The EU has likely rejected May's proposal for the Irish backstop
https://news.sky.com/story/rejection...-plan-11551130
As a reminder, on 17 July 2016, John Redwood told us "Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy - the UK holds most of the cards in any negotiation."

3. There are no great trade deals out there which we as a non-EU country can readily take advantage of. David Davis's promises otherwise have been proven to be a sham at worst or daydreaming at best.
As a reminder, on 14 July 2016, he said "I would expect the new Prime Minister on 9 September to immediately trigger a large round of global trade deals...I would expect that the negotiation phase of most of them to be concluded within between 12 and 24 months."

Don’t forget he also said

Coming to a free trade agreement with the EU should be "one of the easiest in human history" because our rules and laws are already the same

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Mr K

It would be quite simple, accept the proposed deal or reject it, - 2 options, most can cope with that.

If rejected the Govt. would have to renegotiate or come up with a better plan. It wouldn't automatically mean the end of your beloved Brexit.

Wrong Mr K, if the deal is rejected we leave without a deal. That is the reality. Therefore+making such a second referendum pointless.

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Originally Posted by Hugh

Don’t forget he also said

He was right it “should” be, but we haven’t even got to that stage yet. We’re still negotiating the “withdrawal” agreement not the the future relationship.

Originally Posted by Angua

As i have pointed out before. The Referendum was Cameron's attempt to unite the increasingly fractured Tory party. It is clearly not having the desired result and the country is suffering as a result.

In what way, is it suffering ?

JFI: Just out in the last few days, Economy has grown by 0.6% !!! Remember the democracy abusers, who want a second referendum to stop the result of the first, said the UK would be in a recession right after a leave result.

I have been able to buy and move in to a new house, on a nice Cul-de-sac - my take home pay has increased and im in the same role, so all this bullshit about all the UK is suffering primarily because of Brexit, is utter bollocks.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Wrong Mr K, if the deal is rejected we leave without a deal. That is the reality. Therefore+making such a second referendum pointless.

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He was right it “should” be, but we haven’t even got to that stage yet. We’re still negotiating the “withdrawal” agreement not the the future relationship.

The No Deal thing is the least likely outcome, in fact it won't happen as it would send the country into chaos. Even this Govt. isn't that mad. It has to made to look a possibility for the sake of negotiation but nobody has been fooled.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Mr K

The No Deal thing is the least likely outcome, in fact it won't happen as it would send the country into chaos. Even this Govt. isn't that mad. It has to made to look a possibility for the sake of negotiation but nobody has been fooled.

Anyone would think that no countries could survive outside of the EU! Well, they do, and they also trade with the EU, with or without trade deals.

The choice is between a deal and what has become affectionately known as a 'hard Brexit'. This is not going to change.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Anyone would think that no countries could survive outside of the EU! Well, they do, and they also trade with the EU, with or without trade deals.

The choice is between a deal and what has become affectionately known as a 'hard Brexit'. This is not going to change.

Which large and prosperous European countries are not in the EU single market or customs union?
I'm talking about Europe as proximity is important http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/0...ters-in-trade/

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Which large and prosperous European countries are not in the EU single market or customs union?
I'm talking about Europe as proximity is important http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/0...ters-in-trade/

What a strange question, Andrew.

Proximity is convenient, but distance is not the barrier it once was.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Anyone would think that no countries could survive outside of the EU! Well, they do, and they also trade with the EU, with or without trade deals.

The choice is between a deal and what has become affectionately known as a 'hard Brexit'. This is not going to change.

Could you tell us which countries trade with EU without a trade deal, please?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

What a strange question, Andrew.

Proximity is convenient, but distance is not the barrier it once was.

Not a strange question if you understand trade. Do you have an answer?

Regarding proximity, it's still key. The standard analysis for goods is that each doubling of distance with a trading partner halves trade between them.

A survey of Canadian services exports found that each one per cent increase in distance with a trading partner reduced trade by a third of one per cent. https://www.nber.org/papers/w17630
The International Monetary Fund, which generated some estimates for the UK, found that the effect of distances on services trade was even higher than for goods. https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft...16/cr16169.pdf

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I think people today will be facing up to a couple of Brexit realities:

1. There is no strong and stable government in place at the moment and things are likely to worsen. It really is a case of Carry on Brexit.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...sters-13566895

2. The EU has likely rejected May's proposal for the Irish backstop
https://news.sky.com/story/rejection...-plan-11551130
As a reminder, on 17 July 2016, John Redwood told us "Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy - the UK holds most of the cards in any negotiation." SEPH]: Unforunately the stupid TB guvmin did not play those cards.