Brexit (Old)

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Sorry, I have just been enjoying the show. On what you ask? Well I could talk about:

• A campaign run by criminals
• A campaign lead by Liars and Charlatans
• A proposal to restructure the economy based on no, yes zero, planning
• A backdrop of years of right wing media lies about the EU and immigrants
• dog whistle racism used to encourage anti-immigrant hysteria
• the fact that immigration from outside the EU has always been higher, in some years much higher, than from the EU
• the fact that our Government has had the ability for some time now to control EU migration but chose not to use it
• the fact that the country was not told that the vote would leave them, and the country, poorer

Yes, the list is endless but all of this does not matter one whit. You see, this is a religious thing. It always has been. Facts and evidence mean nothing if you have Faith. They are, by definition, incompatible.

Here is a Leave voter that represents the end of the Leave spectrum but he really believes this stuff and there are a lot like him:

"Let's get back to being the British Empire" - this leave voter at the #SaveBrexitRally in Harrogate explains why he doesn't want a #PeoplesVote

Yes, I know, I will get the same old crap about "I know what I voted for", "the EU is corrupt" and "Jean-Claude Juncker ate my goldfish" but I don't care.

This whole process is a Tory debacle: a rats in a sack civil war that is taking the country down with it. I for one am not happy to watch this play out and do nothing. I did my bit and I am proud of it. I stood up for what I think is right.

Last thought, for the literal amongst you: if you have a march of 500,000 that means there are many, many more in the country who support you: those who could not make the journey for myriad of reasons.

This is democracy in action: the people trying to stop the country being taken down by a cabal of elites, political opportunists and free market capitalists.

Time for dinner

There probably are others who support the marchers. Not as many as those who want to leave, though, and that is the point.

As for your nonsense about this being a Tory issue, you are not making the connection that the majority are in line with the view that the EU is bad for us.

However, let's not just issue a health warning. Let's get outta here!

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

It means that there's only 5% yet to go, most of which concerns the NI border issue.

Both Barnier and May agree on that figure.

Er - wouldn't it be better if we knew what was in the 95%? What stitch-up/capitulation is in there? And none of those MPs asked the question.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Er - wouldn't it be better if we knew what was in the 95%? What stitch-up/capitulation is in there? And none of those MPs asked the question.

We all know that this is mainly about the NI border and the backstop. Nothing else to see here.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Sorry, I have just been enjoying the show. On what you ask? Well I could talk about:

• A campaign run by criminals
• A campaign lead by Liars and Charlatans
• A proposal to restructure the economy based on no, yes zero, planning
• A backdrop of years of right wing media lies about the EU and immigrants
• dog whistle racism used to encourage anti-immigrant hysteria
• the fact that immigration from outside the EU has always been higher, in some years much higher, than from the EU
• the fact that our Government has had the ability for some time now to control EU migration but chose not to use it
• the fact that the country was not told that the vote would leave them, and the country, poorer

Yes, the list is endless but all of this does not matter one whit. You see, this is a religious thing. It always has been. Facts and evidence mean nothing if you have Faith. They are, by definition, incompatible.

Here is a Leave voter that represents the end of the Leave spectrum but he really believes this stuff and there are a lot like him:

"Let's get back to being the British Empire" - this leave voter at the #SaveBrexitRally in Harrogate explains why he doesn't want a #PeoplesVote

Yes, I know, I will get the same old crap about "I know what I voted for", "the EU is corrupt" and "Jean-Claude Juncker ate my goldfish" but I don't care.

This whole process is a Tory debacle: a rats in a sack civil war that is taking the country down with it. I for one am not happy to watch this play out and do nothing. I did my bit and I am proud of it. I stood up for what I think is right.

Last thought, for the literal amongst you: if you have a march of 500,000 that means there are many, many more in the country who support you: those who could not make the journey for myriad of reasons.

This is democracy in action: the people trying to stop the country being taken down by a cabal of elites, political opportunists and free market capitalists.

Time for dinner

So on what I asked you have no answer for.

All I want to know is what is this peoples vote you marched for?

What is the vote you actually want, if its on the deal what from do you want it to take and what do you expect to achieve?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

We all know that this is mainly about the NI border and the backstop. Nothing else to see here.

I think Seph is asking what's in the 95% not what's in the 5%.

[richard s]

Yes we could have another vote on staying or leaving the EU but I honestly believe that the outcome would be closer but the result would be to leave still unfortunately.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Is it too early to apply for a visa to visit Paris in the spring?

Well, Theresa May is currently talking about staying in the single market and customs union until 2021 so I reckon you won't need one for a bit.

[pip08456]

At least one shadow labour minister has it right regarding a second referendum.

Mr Gardiner said Remain and Leave campaigners told voters at the 2016 referendum that their decision “will determine the future of our country for the next 40 or 50 years”.

He added: “If you then say to people ‘We did give you a vote and actually we, the Remainers, lost the vote, but because you were stupid enough to do what you wanted rather than what we wanted ... we’ll give you another chance to get it right’ – that undermines the whole principle of democracy in this country.”

source https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8505261.html

[1andrew1]

At least one Conservative MP has it right regarding a second referendum.

The Cambridgeshire South MP, Heidi Allen, said she would now back a second public vote on leaving the EU because of the threat to jobs and businesses in her constituency and the rest of the country from crashing out without a deal.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ew-brexit-vote

[Pierre]

Have IQ’s suddenly dropped on this forum?

A second referendum, which won’t happen but if it did, would have to take place before March next year. Also a bill would have to passed in parliament to repeal the withdrawal bill. Or at least to say if the country voted to remain to repeal the withdrawl bill.

I don’t see that happening in 5 months.

Therefore we will leave in March with, or without, a deal. Any second referendum would have to take place when we’re outside of the EU, which would mean having to negotiate re-entering the EU. Which would mean joining the single currency and a shed load of other things we opted out of when we were members.

We are leaving in March 2019. There is nothing that can be done to stop it. It would be unlawful.

Failure to grasp this concept is mind blowing.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Have IQ’s suddenly dropped on this forum?

A second referendum, which won’t happen but if it did, would have to take place before March next year. Also a bill would have to passed in parliament to repeal the withdrawal bill. Or at least to say if the country voted to remain to repeal the withdrawl bill.

I don’t see that happening in 5 months.

Therefore we will leave in March with, or without, a deal. Any second referendum would have to take place when we’re outside of the EU, which would mean having to negotiate re-entering the EU. Which would mean joining the single currency and a shed load of other things we opted out of when we were members.

We are leaving in March 2019. There is nothing that can be done to stop it. It would be unlawful.

Failure to grasp this concept is mind blowing.

Originally Posted by pip08456

So on what I asked you have no answer for.

All I want to know is what is this peoples vote you marched for?

What is the vote you actually want, if its on the deal what from do you want it to take and what do you expect to achieve?

The losers March on Saturday wasn't about a vote on the deal - the Stop Brexit posters showed the lot of them for what they are, abusers of democracy, they want another vote with the option to Remain in the EU.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Mick

The losers March on Saturday wasn't about a vote on the deal - the Stop Brexit posters showed the lot of them for what they are, abusers of democracy, they want another vote with the option to Remain in the EU.

I know that Mick.
You know that Mick.
None of the remainers here will come out and admit it though. That includes one who went on the march.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Have IQ’s suddenly dropped on this forum?

No, but seemingly respect for other viewpoints just has.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Sorry, I have just been enjoying the show. On what you ask? Well I could talk about:

• A campaign run by criminals
• A campaign lead by Liars and Charlatans
• A proposal to restructure the economy based on no, yes zero, planning
• A backdrop of years of right wing media lies about the EU and immigrants
• dog whistle racism used to encourage anti-immigrant hysteria
• the fact that immigration from outside the EU has always been higher, in some years much higher, than from the EU
• the fact that our Government has had the ability for some time now to control EU migration but chose not to use it
• the fact that the country was not told that the vote would leave them, and the country, poorer

Yes, the list is endless but all of this does not matter one whit. You see, this is a religious thing. It always has been. Facts and evidence mean nothing if you have Faith. They are, by definition, incompatible.

Here is a Leave voter that represents the end of the Leave spectrum but he really believes this stuff and there are a lot like him:

"Let's get back to being the British Empire" - this leave voter at the #SaveBrexitRally in Harrogate explains why he doesn't want a #PeoplesVote

Yes, I know, I will get the same old crap about "I know what I voted for", "the EU is corrupt" and "Jean-Claude Juncker ate my goldfish" but I don't care.

This whole process is a Tory debacle: a rats in a sack civil war that is taking the country down with it. I for one am not happy to watch this play out and do nothing. I did my bit and I am proud of it. I stood up for what I think is right.

Last thought, for the literal amongst you: if you have a march of 500,000 that means there are many, many more in the country who support you: those who could not make the journey for myriad of reasons.

This is democracy in action: the people trying to stop the country being taken down by a cabal of elites, political opportunists and free market capitalists.

Time for dinner

In years to come you can say i was there just before we left the EU, that's me in the photo waving a bit of cardboard around ,we were all fighting for a common cause [The we hate Trump,universal credit,the Tories,Nigel Farage,borris,david davis and brexit] campaign, dumbocracy in action, it was a nice day out and the bus was free.