04-02-2021, 00:21
|
#3376
|
laeva recumbens anguis
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 67
Services: Premiere Collection
Posts: 42,099
|
Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking
Have there been any other examples where a vaccine has actually been shown to be less effective in the over-65s? If not, then saying use in over-65s is not proven, is a bit flimsy. If there have been examples where a vaccine has been found to be less effective, then caution might make more sense.
|
I discussed this with my brother in law, who works in this field (and has for over 40 years).
The older you get, the more your body wears out (he says we’ll all die of some form of cancer, if something else doesn’t get us - your body’s repair mechanisms make more and more faulty cells, rather than the good ones).
Because of this, vaccines (and medications) can cause different reactions in older people than in those in younger age groups - this is why older people often need additional medications to counter-act some of the effects of taking medications which those younger than them don’t need.
So, they like to confirm that medications/vaccines won’t cause adverse effects in older people, rather than assume it (which is why the cohort I was in for the Novavax vaccine was mainly 60+).
__________________
There is always light.
If only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
If my post is in bold and this colour, it's a Moderator Request.
|
|
|
04-02-2021, 09:10
|
#3377
|
cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: #Plagueisland
Age: 53
Services: VM VIP Pack
Posts: 1,668
|
Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking
Have there been any other examples where a vaccine has actually been shown to be less effective in the over-65s? If not, then saying use in over-65s is not proven, is a bit flimsy. If there have been examples where a vaccine has been found to be less effective, then caution might make more sense.
|
This study shows flu vaccination efficacy dropping from 51% in under 65's to 37% which is quite a drop. As Hugh said, as you age, your immune system drops off. There can also be inflammation issues in the elderly - think rheumatoid arthritis for example which is the immune system going awry.
Clinical trial design is tough as you really want to remove 'confounding factors' - other issues with the subjects of the trial that might affect the results and the elderly may have lots of those.
In all likelihood, the vaccines will be effective in the elderly and this is how the UK has approached things but for a formal acceptance of a drug on to the market this isn't enough, you need to prove it.
|
|
|
04-02-2021, 09:24
|
#3378
|
vox populi vox dei
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: the last resort
Services: every thing
Posts: 13,739
|
Re: Coronavirus
I'm quite worried, atm I'm quite fit /don't take any medications and my immune system seems to work just fine, but the science seems to say that from June 22 [my 65 birthday] i'm going to become a doddering old fart a vulnerable old fogey, a drain on the NHS.........
__________________
To be or not to be, woke is the question Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer. The slings and arrows of outrageous wokedome, Or to take arms against a sea of wokies. And by opposing end them.
|
|
|
04-02-2021, 10:01
|
#3379
|
The Invisible Woman
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: between Portsmouth and Southampton.
Age: 71
Services: VM XL TV,50 MB VM BB,VM landline, Tivo
Posts: 40,163
|
Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf
I'm quite worried, atm I'm quite fit /don't take any medications and my immune system seems to work just fine, but the science seems to say that from June 22 [my 65 birthday] i'm going to become a doddering old fart a vulnerable old fogey, a drain on the NHS.........
|
Yep! I can confirm that as soon as I reached 65 bits began to fall off or degrade. You will be on the downward slope after that. It begins with the doctor putting you on Statins and off you go. I've had an op on my degraded wrist, breast cancer treatment, and the basement refurbished and currently I'm fighting arthritis in various joints. I'm currently pleased to be able to avoid my doctor's surgery due to the current panic over covid because it seems like every time I visit they find something else to fix.
You are doomed!
__________________
Hell is empty and all the devils are here. Shakespeare..
|
|
|
04-02-2021, 10:13
|
#3380
|
Trollsplatter
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 36,929
|
Re: Coronavirus
Actually Jfman raised an interesting point the other day ... a useful side-effect of the decision not to use the Oxford vaccine on older people in many European countries has handed their governments a decent excuse to explain their limited supply and also to do what the statistics say you should, but human decency says you shouldn't, which is to give the vaccine to younger people, who have more life ahead of them, and leave the elderly to take their chances...
|
|
|
04-02-2021, 10:27
|
#3381
|
Sulking in the Corner
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: RG41
Services: 1 Gbps; Hub 4 MM; ASUS RT-AX88U; Ultimate VOLT. BT Infinity2; Devolo 1200AV
Posts: 11,955
|
Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
Actually Jfman raised an interesting point the other day ... a useful side-effect of the decision not to use the Oxford vaccine on older people in many European countries has handed their governments a decent excuse to explain their limited supply and also to do what the statistics say you should, but human decency says you shouldn't, which is to give the vaccine to younger people, who have more life ahead of them, and leave the elderly to take their chances...
|
I'm quite sure the decision, where taken, is political. After all, they'll give the Pfizer vaccine to the >65s. It would be political suicide to penalise the >65s by making them wait.
__________________
Seph.
My advice is at your risk.
|
|
|
04-02-2021, 10:35
|
#3382
|
cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,231
|
Re: Coronavirus
I know we shouldn't go by anecdotal evidence, but of the seven people over 80 I know across England, all have received the Pfizer vaccine.
Really putting it out there. It's obviously not a sufficient sample size to be meaningful.
If this pattern did proves to be more widespread, it might be that delivery schedules mean that more over-80s are receiving the Pfizer vaccine than the AstraZeneca one anyway.
Last edited by 1andrew1; 04-02-2021 at 11:16.
|
|
|
04-02-2021, 10:58
|
#3383
|
Sulking in the Corner
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: RG41
Services: 1 Gbps; Hub 4 MM; ASUS RT-AX88U; Ultimate VOLT. BT Infinity2; Devolo 1200AV
Posts: 11,955
|
Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
I know we shouldn't go by anecdotal evidence, but of the seven people over 80 I know across England, all have received the Pfizer vaccine.
|
Is there a hint from you that this might be deliberate policy or are you just putting it out there?
My own surgery gave Pfizer to the over-80s but are definitely giving AZ to the over 75s.
__________________
Seph.
My advice is at your risk.
|
|
|
04-02-2021, 11:03
|
#3384
|
Virgin Media Employee
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Winchester
Services: Staff MyRates
BB: VM XXL
TV: VM XL
Phone : VM XL
Posts: 3,115
|
Re: Coronavirus
Maybe the over 80's got Pfizer because that was what was available when they were called in?
__________________
I work for VMO2 but reply here in my own right. Any help or advice is made on a best-effort basis. No comments construe any obligation on VMO2 or its employees.
|
|
|
04-02-2021, 11:06
|
#3385
|
Born again teenager.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Manchester. (VM area 20)
Age: 75
Services: Maxit TV, M250 Fibre BB.
Phone-Anytime Chatter
Posts: 13,700
|
Re: Coronavirus
The AZ vaccinations did not start until 2nd January whilst the Pzizer Vaccinations started in early December so many over 80s and those in that first group had the Pfizer jab as it was the only one available.
beaten to the line by tweetiepooh.
__________________
"I intend to live forever, or die trying" - Groucho Marx..... "but whilst I do I shall do so disgracefully." Jo Glynne
|
|
|
04-02-2021, 11:07
|
#3386
|
laeva recumbens anguis
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 67
Services: Premiere Collection
Posts: 42,099
|
Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf
I'm quite worried, atm I'm quite fit /don't take any medications and my immune system seems to work just fine, but the science seems to say that from June 22 [my 65 birthday] i'm going to become a doddering old fart a vulnerable old fogey, a drain on the NHS.........
|
The science says that from around that age (could be before, could be after, it’s an average), things start working less well in a slow downward curve (if you’re lucky) rather than just a "falling off a cliff" plummet - hope that reassures you...
__________________
There is always light.
If only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
If my post is in bold and this colour, it's a Moderator Request.
Last edited by Hugh; 04-02-2021 at 11:29.
|
|
|
04-02-2021, 11:17
|
#3387
|
cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,231
|
Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetiepooh
Maybe the over 80's got Pfizer because that was what was available when they were called in?
|
All seven were vaccinated in January.
|
|
|
04-02-2021, 11:21
|
#3388
|
Trollsplatter
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 36,929
|
Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
All seven were vaccinated in January.
|
It will just come down to where supplies have been assigned and how quickly they have been used. Storage is also a factor with the Pfizer vaccine which will affect where it can be sent. Given the speed and scale of the vaccine programme I don't think they're going to be making any more than purely practical decisions about which one to use in any given location.
Last edited by Chris; 04-02-2021 at 11:35.
|
|
|
04-02-2021, 11:27
|
#3389
|
Architect of Ideas
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,366
|
Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
Actually Jfman raised an interesting point the other day ... a useful side-effect of the decision not to use the Oxford vaccine on older people in many European countries has handed their governments a decent excuse to explain their limited supply and also to do what the statistics say you should, but human decency says you shouldn't, which is to give the vaccine to younger people, who have more life ahead of them, and leave the elderly to take their chances...
|
Well it allows them to take a differentiated approach to it by guaranteeing the elderly the more effective vaccines and the younger, who are less likely to develop complications in any case, can use the least effective of the approved vaccines.
It also applies the logic we did of using the 12 week window that it’s better to give more people some immunity than people than a small number of people strong immunity.
It’s very easy to spin given the immediate confusion in the AZ trial results.
Last edited by jfman; 04-02-2021 at 11:39.
|
|
|
04-02-2021, 11:27
|
#3390
|
Born again teenager.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Manchester. (VM area 20)
Age: 75
Services: Maxit TV, M250 Fibre BB.
Phone-Anytime Chatter
Posts: 13,700
|
Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
All seven were vaccinated in January.
|
I don't understand the point you are making.
I had my Pfizer jab in late January because that was the vaccine that one of the large Surgeries was using as it had the necessary freezer to store that vaccine. The other Surgery hub in my area didn't have that capability so they used the AZ vaccine. It all depended in which postcode our actual Surgery was located where we ended up getting vaccinated.
__________________
"I intend to live forever, or die trying" - Groucho Marx..... "but whilst I do I shall do so disgracefully." Jo Glynne
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 4 (0 members and 4 guests)
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:45.
|