Funding of the BBC

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Until someone devises a way of funding the BBC that's not through advertising or subscription, I can't see things changing under the current government and BBC Director General.
The middle way seems to be as per now - contain costs and maximise content sales which should lead to sub-inflation rises in the licence fee. Then make a bit of noise about other solutions whilst not rocking the boat too much for BBC 2/4, Radio 3/4-loving Conservative voters. (Deliberate cliches)

Not unreasonable.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Hugh

People have said they like the BBC, and don’t mind paying the licence - that is not the same as saying people have said "nothing will ever change"...

Nice try, though...

Face it, Hugh. While we all acknowledge that some people want to continue paying the licence, a growing number are protesting about it, and that includes on this forum.

The responses you get from some contributors indicates that they do indeed think nothing will change, whether it's the TV licence, Amazon landing more Premiership rights, broadcast TV channels closing down and moving to IPTV, you name it.

Mind you, some are just trolling or on a wind-up, that much is acknowledged.

---------- Post added at 11:01 ---------- Previous post was at 10:53 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Until someone devises a way of funding the BBC that's not through advertising or subscription, I can't see things changing under the current government and BBC Director General.
The middle way seems to be as per now - contain costs and maximise content sales which should lead to sub-inflation rises in the licence fee. Then make a bit of noise about other solutions whilst not rocking the boat too much for BBC 2/4, Radio 3/4-loving Conservative voters. (Deliberate cliches)

But if all the other channels eventually move to IPTV, what would be the point of dear old Auntie broadcasting alone on terrestrial? Once everyone knows where the bulk of the channels are, that's where they will migrate.

It's nothing to do with 'Conservative voters'. There are many people from all walks of life, including the poor, who do not want their money used for a service they don't want, and it's pure selfishness that motivates people who do watch and listen to the BBC that they should insist that everyone pays just so the cost to them is subsidised in this way.

---------- Post added at 11:05 ---------- Previous post was at 11:01 ----------

Originally Posted by telegramsam

Yeah as I said it will go eventually and as you said their will be a public outcry. I could even see people refusing to pay like with the Poll tax and forcing the Beebs hand.

It won't be too long before this becomes a hot election issue. That'll make the BBC sit up and take notice.

I'm disappointed with Davie for attempting to rule out the abandoning of the licence fee, although you can't blame him when it is so lucrative for the organisation he is in charge of. We need to charge up those electric prods!

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

But if all the other channels eventually move to IPTV, what would be the point of dear old Auntie broadcasting alone on terrestrial? Once everyone knows where the bulk of the channels are, that's where they will migrate.

It's nothing to do with 'Conservative voters'. There are many people from all walks of life, including the poor, who do not want their money used for a service they don't want, and it's pure selfishness that motivates people who do watch and listen to the BBC that they should insist that everyone pays just so the cost to them is subsidised in this

I've never mentioned that the BBC would be the last man standing on DTT so not sure why that element has been introduced. There's enough threads on the forum about that topic as it is!
The mention of Conservative voters should be obvious - they elected the current government so it won't seek to upset them unnecessarily. And you can be poor and still vote Conservative. It's not pure selfishness that insists upon this universal funding model, the new DG has explained why this is the case.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I've never mentioned that the BBC would be the last man standing on DTT so not sure why that element has been introduced. There's enough threads on the forum about that topic as it is!
The mention of Conservative voters should be obvious - they elected the current government so it won't seek to upset them unnecessarily. And you can be poor and still vote Conservative. It's not pure selfishness that insists upon this universal funding model, the new DG has explained why this is the case.

Where is your evidence that Labour voters want the licence fee retained? I was certainly not aware that they were all BBC fans - in fact, my observations are that they tend to steer away from the BBC in favour of the commercial channels.

I have mentioned DTT because, as you know, it is my staunch view that the commercial stations will ultimately abandon that means of broadcasting. It is entirely relevant to my argument.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

H'mm...if people did this in great numbers, the Beeb might start crying out for a subscription!!

It’d also rely on people abandoning their well established TV packages with Sky and Virgin. Rumours of the demise of the licence fee is vastly overrated.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Where is your evidence that Labour voters want the licence fee retained? I was certainly not aware that they were all BBC fans - in fact, my observations are that they tend to steer away from the BBC in favour of the commercial channels.

I have mentioned DTT because, as you know, it is my staunch view that the commercial stations will ultimately abandon that means of broadcasting. It is entirely relevant to my argument.

I've not mentioned Labour voters.
Your staunch view on linear broadcasting was that its days are numbered. There was never a PS about the BBC in there.
In terms of DTT, DTH and even DTC, I can envisage these means of delivering linear channels being superceded in the future.

[Sephiroth]

It is tempting to think that IPTV is the future of TV. But ...

Terrestrial TV and Satellite TV (which I suspect Sky will stop one day) have the advantage of using airwaves with no contention.

So there's a long way to go on delivery medium without prejudice to the BBC funding question.

[Legendkiller2k]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

H'mm...if people did this in great numbers, the Beeb might start crying out for a subscription!!

They're already trying to get it changed so tvl will be needed for the likes of Netflix etc.

Another mentioned option is tvl becomes part of the council tax.

Originally Posted by Legendkiller2k

They're already trying to get it changed so tvl will be needed for the likes of Netflix etc.

Another mentioned option is tvl becomes part of the council tax.

Police and fire authorities are precepting authorities that instruct local councils to collect money for them. Your local council adds this to your council tax bill - in England and Wales you should be able to see it itemised on your bill. It’s done slightly different in Scotland, but here the water and sewage is still in public ownership so you do still see that itemised on the council tax bill.

It would be difficult politically to put a BBC precept on every council tax bill across the UK, however wholesale reform, creating a broadcasting authority with broad responsibility for public tv, radio and communications infrastructure and allowing that to set precepts might work. Public service broadcasters might then bid for funding from this authority for money to fulfil their PSB obligations, with the lion’s share going to the BBC but cash also finding its way to ITV to ensure the continuation of programming that has social value but is increasingly difficult to justify financially.

The only realistic chance we have of switching our comms infrastructure entirely onto IP and related technologies as an alternative to satellite and terrestrial masts is if there’s some kind of public intervention because we are way short of the necessary bandwidth at present, not to mention the raw electrical power needed to run it.

[Legendkiller2k]

Originally Posted by Chris

Police and fire authorities are precepting authorities that instruct local councils to collect money for them. Your local council adds this to your council tax bill - in England and Wales you should be able to see it itemised on your bill. It’s done slightly different in Scotland, but here the water and sewage is still in public ownership so you do still see that itemised on the council tax bill.

It would be difficult politically to put a BBC precept on every council tax bill across the UK, however wholesale reform, creating a broadcasting authority with broad responsibility for public tv, radio and communications infrastructure and allowing that to set precepts might work. Public service broadcasters might then bid for funding from this authority for money to fulfil their PSB obligations, with the lion’s share going to the BBC but cash also finding its way to ITV to ensure the continuation of programming that has social value but is increasingly difficult to justify financially.

The only realistic chance we have of switching our comms infrastructure entirely onto IP and related technologies as an alternative to satellite and terrestrial masts is if there’s some kind of public intervention because we are way short of the necessary bandwidth at present, not to mention the raw electrical power needed to run it.

Absolutely mate but the boffins think otherwise https://www.mirror.co.uk/money/new-h...place-22592503

[1andrew1]

Chris's and Legendkiller's posts both point to inclusion in the Council tax. I think this is more likely than a move to a subscription service and is a cost-effective means of collection which also allows those on benefits an easy qay to a free TV licence.

Originally Posted by Legendkiller2k

Absolutely mate but the boffins think otherwise https://www.mirror.co.uk/money/new-h...place-22592503

Not really ... Tony Hall agrees a universal precept is a means of doing it, nothing I’ve said above contradicts that. I’m thinking more along the lines of which authority should collect and distribute money collected in that way. I think it would be politically awkward for the BBC to do so directly.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Chris

Not really ... Tony Hall agrees a universal precept is a means of doing it, nothing I’ve said above contradicts that. I’m thinking more along the lines of which authority should collect and distribute money collected in that way. I think it would be politically awkward for the BBC to do so directly.

I agree.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I've not mentioned Labour voters.
Your staunch view on linear broadcasting was that its days are numbered. There was never a PS about the BBC in there.
In terms of DTT, DTH and even DTC, I can envisage these means of delivering linear channels being superceded in the future.

No you mentioned Conservative voters, implying that Labour voters actually had a different view of the BBC. You are trying to make this political when actually a growing number of people from different political points of view are questioning why, in this day and age, a licence fee is still appropriate.

---------- Post added at 08:51 ---------- Previous post was at 08:44 ----------

Originally Posted by Legendkiller2k

They're already trying to get it changed so tvl will be needed for the likes of Netflix etc.

Another mentioned option is tvl becomes part of the council tax.

This still does not solve the problem. The money goes primarily to the BBC, which is losing audience share. A tax still means people are paying for a medium they don't use and a big, bureaucratic and wasteful operation is hampering commercial operators.

Anyway, what prospect is there that a Conservative government will simply perpetuate this problem rather than solve it? They've been considering a subscription model for years and it's only the state of technology that's prevented it from happening so far.

It will be down to the government to decide in the end, not Mr Davie, who seems to be turning native already.

---------- Post added at 08:55 ---------- Previous post was at 08:51 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

Police and fire authorities are precepting authorities that instruct local councils to collect money for them. Your local council adds this to your council tax bill - in England and Wales you should be able to see it itemised on your bill. It’s done slightly different in Scotland, but here the water and sewage is still in public ownership so you do still see that itemised on the council tax bill.

It would be difficult politically to put a BBC precept on every council tax bill across the UK, however wholesale reform, creating a broadcasting authority with broad responsibility for public tv, radio and communications infrastructure and allowing that to set precepts might work. Public service broadcasters might then bid for funding from this authority for money to fulfil their PSB obligations, with the lion’s share going to the BBC but cash also finding its way to ITV to ensure the continuation of programming that has social value but is increasingly difficult to justify financially.

The only realistic chance we have of switching our comms infrastructure entirely onto IP and related technologies as an alternative to satellite and terrestrial masts is if there’s some kind of public intervention because we are way short of the necessary bandwidth at present, not to mention the raw electrical power needed to run it.

That's just a fudge. Taxation should not be used to fund TV channels, radio stations and media websites. Taxation should be reserved for essential spending, such as education and social care. The government needs to stop using the taxpayer as a cash cow and let us spend more of our money how we want.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

No you mentioned Conservative voters, implying that Labour voters actually had a different view of the BBC. You are trying to make this political when actually a growing number of people from different political points of view are questioning why, in this day and age, a licence fee is still appropriate.

Wrong in multiple ways. The reason I mentioned Conservative Party is that they are the ones in power and unlikely to act against the interests of those who voted for them.