Brexit

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Given the choice of second referendum, election or extension, an extension will always win. Now we've gone past the deadline of a European election, there's less to lose by it and a new prime minister will be more readily forgiven.

Nope. 31st October and article 24 agreement possible in that time.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

No, a 'no deal' means no withdrawal agreement. What is proposed is that we simply agree to pin down what needs to go in the trade agreement, and that will be the rationale for invoking the protection agreement.

You are clutching at straws here, Andrew. An Article 24 arrangement is perfectly possible and in fact it is the key to our leaving the EU.

That's clearly not on offer by the EU and the UK signed up to an agreed withdrawal agreement process.
If you can go back in time to when Theresa May first took power then this may have been something we could propose, but not now.

[Mythica]

Originally Posted by Mick

Is this you showing the "voice of reason" card?

Forgive me if I ignore it. Us Brexiteers on here, get clumped together all the time by most of you Remainer lot.

No it isn't, I just think it's unfair labeling some people as remainer buddies just because they voted remain. People voted for different reasons and can agree or disagree on different things. It was a cheap shot in my opinion. I personally have never seen it happen on here.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

Is this you showing the "voice of reason" card?

Forgive me if I ignore it. Us Brexiteers on here, get clumped together all the time by most of you Remainer lot.

You don't Mick.
Let's be positive and treat one another as individuals whom we agree with on some occasions and disagree with on others.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

That's clearly not on offer by the EU and the UK signed up to an agreed withdrawal agreement process.
If you can go back in time to when Theresa May first took power then this may have been something we could propose, but not now.

How did the UK sign up to a withdrawal agreement process. The UK parliament has rejected it several times.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by pip08456

Nope. 31st October and article 24 agreement possible in that time.

How so?

[nomadking]

Link

Northern Ireland/the backstop

If no long-term trade deal has been agreed by the end of 2020 that avoids a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, and if there is no extension to the transition period, then a backstop consisting of "a single customs territory between the (European) Union and the United Kingdom" will be triggered.

• Northern Ireland will be in a deeper customs relationship with the EU than the rest of the UK; it will also be more closely aligned with the rules and regulations of the EU single market.
• As long as the backstop is in operation, the UK will be subject to "level playing field conditions", to ensure it cannot gain a competitive advantage while remaining in the same customs territory.
• The UK cannot leave the backstop independently, it needs to be decided together with the EU.

...
The single customs territory is basically another name for a temporary customs union and, if it were needed, it would ensure that completely frictionless trade could continue across the Irish border. But it would also prevent the UK implementing any trade deals with other countries around the world that involve removing tariffs on goods. That upsets supporters of Brexit, especially as there is no guaranteed route out of this backstop unless the EU gives its consent.

Withdrawal Agreement.

to apply unless and until an alternative arrangement implementing another scenario is agreed,

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by pip08456

How did the UK sign up to a withdrawal agreement process. The UK parliament has rejected it several times.

Agreement and process are different.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

That's clearly not on offer by the EU and the UK signed up to an agreed withdrawal agreement process.
If you can go back in time to when Theresa May first took power then this may have been something we could propose, but not now.

What is not on offer by the EU is any amendment to the Withdrawal Agreement.

An agreement on the objectives of a future trade deal is a different matter altogether.

Let's look at finding a way out of this to deliver the referendum instead of raising all these red herrings.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Link
Withdrawal Agreement.

An alternative arrangement would have to cover all the things in the Withdrawal Agreement including the financial settlement and Irish border. Not just trade.

---------- Post added at 13:24 ---------- Previous post was at 13:22 ----------

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

What is not on offer by the EU is any amendment to the Withdrawal Agreement.

An agreement on the objectives of a future trade deal is a different matter altogether.

Let's look at finding a way out of this to deliver the referendum instead of raising all these red herrings.

The Irish border and financial settlement are not red herrings. The EU won't agree anything unless they're resolved.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Agreement and process are different.

Then show where the UK signed up to a withdrawal agreement.

Article 50 puts the onus on the EU to come up with an agreement on the withdrawal and future relationship. There is no such onus on the UK.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Damien

RE: Article 24:https://fullfact.org/europe/article-24/

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-br...-idUKKCN1PH24V

Seen it. I have provided the Brexit answer to this. So what is your point?

Those who are opposed to Brexit are desperate to make people believe that Article 24 is impossible. Even the anti-Brexit BBC has now finally conceded that it is, indeed, possible, and given that GATT provides for it, doesn't it just show how establishment figures and organisations try to mislead us?

---------- Post added at 13:26 ---------- Previous post was at 13:24 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

How so?

How not?

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

For a sense of perspective, read this.

https://brexitcentral.com/managed-no...ariffs-quotas/

My point still stands.

---------- Post added at 13:29 ---------- Previous post was at 13:28 ----------

Originally Posted by pip08456

How did the UK sign up to a withdrawal agreement process. The UK parliament has rejected it several times.

No, they didn't, they rejected the agreement that was reached, not the process itself.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

An alternative arrangement would have to cover all the things in the Withdrawal Agreement including the financial settlement and Irish border. Not just trade.

---------- Post added at 13:24 ---------- Previous post was at 13:22 ----------


The Irish border and financial settlement are not red herrings. The EU won't agree anything unless they're resolved.

You don't understand. Article 24 provides for the status quo to be maintained while a trade agreement is being negotiated. Once again, you are putting forward problems that don't exist.

Why can you not post solutions instead of objections? That would be much more constructive and stop this thread going around in circles.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by denphone

Personally l don't like Boris Johnson at all but given this has come out today l would say there are some political shenanigans at work here.

It has taken nearly 3 years of work fundraising and getting legal advice, plus building a case. So the timing is as much based on court availability as anything else.

Worth remembering Boris Johnson is innocent until proven guilty or the case is thrown out.

---------- Post added at 13:32 ---------- Previous post was at 13:30 ----------

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

You don't understand. Article 24 provides for the status quo to be maintained while a trade agreement is being negotiated. Once again, you are putting forward problems that don't exist.

Why can you not post solutions instead of objections? That would be much more constructive and stop this thread going around in circles.

The important term in this is "agreement". At the moment with a no deal exit, there is no agreement.